Immigrant rule on paying 20% less than going rate

[Crikeyalmighty]

I'm not quite sure how this passed me by in the list of ludicrous post Brexit stuff but reading today about the fact that in certain shortage occupations it is possible if using immigrants needing visas to pay up to 20% less than the going rate to obtain visas , provided it's more than minimum wage . Labour I believe want to outlaw it.

The figures today do not suprise me one bit- I have a desk in a centre that also does visa processing- for the last 6 months it has been wall to wall with families from developing countries . Not single youngish people but large families and clearly not all nuclear scientists or brain surgeons or however the gvt tried to make it sound as if it would all be super highly skilled immigration - and all will need medical and housing .

If anyone tries to tell me this makes sense rather than mainly single people here short term from the EU- sorry I'm not having it. At least in the EU we had reciprocal rights in places you possibly would choose to live and work or retire . This way it seems the traffic is all one way .

These are not the governments beloved subject of 'the boats' - this is people flying in with permission to work- I don't think many had this quite in mind when they voted to leave- although I always thought it would end up being the case.

The loss of cheap immigrant labour means that wages for indigenous working class people go up and there is less competition for low cost housing and public services?

And when will that start to happen then ?

The loss of cheap immigrant labour means that wages for indigenous working class people go up and there is less competition for low cost housing and public services?

Correct in theory but there needs to be a plan to deal with the ageing population cause that's a heavy strain on public services without young people to support it.

It's not a no brainer, because many people I. Britain (despite not having qualifications) still want a high paying job with no responsibility or accountability, that's easy and to work from home and won't bother if they don't get something that aligns with that

Well there are only 650 seats in parliament. So not everyone can be an MP.

@SerendipityJane I think many don't get that for some businesses in the private sector if they can't make it pay- they simply shut up shop /cafe/transport company- whatever! - it's not as if we are seeing 20% wage hikes across the public sector either where there are also shortages- they just either keep shortages and we all get used to poor standards or in some cases (as we are seeing ) bring in immigrants who will accept those levels of pay. As I have said, to me this is the most pointless self sabotage exercise that has caused considerable economic harm and bugger all gain for most. Yes there are a few making hap whilst the sun shines- hence builders who want to charge you 80K for a months work plus materials or the plumber suddenly doubling his rate- but the vast majority are not suddenly on loads more pay

@SerendipityJane

Honestly I don't know. Wages have gone up round here in certain sectors (bus drivers, cars work) but whether that's reflected nationwide, I have no idea.

I think a certain amount of immigration is largely a good thing but I have a personal negative experience of the impact on the indigenous labour market of cheap East European pre-Brexit labour so my opinion is skewed on that unfortunately.

The building companies employing Brazilian builders round our way pay them less and also house them and charge them for that.

@SerendipityJane not sure why it's 'a crock'. I explained in another post how that figure is calculated.

I don't think you are right- here is the link on the .gov site just so you can familiarise yourself www.gov.uk/skilled-worker-visa/when-you-can-be-paid-less

You’re right, I wasn’t aware of the paying lower than the “going rate” in return for lower or waived visa costs (which are around £2k/yr per family member when you add in NHS surcharge, biometrics fees and such) but the Gov website does say that the wage must still be a minimum of £10.75/hr or a salary of at least £20,960 per year which is above both the NMW and the NLW. So this might actually end up with an immigrant plus family being no worse off if the visa savings balance out the lower wage.

It already has. The owner of Itsu on the other day has had to increase wages three times and is asking for a two year visa to help fix the problem.

He’d like to keep wages lower otherwise customers have to pay more.

Not freezing state pension for emigrant pensioners would encourage many pensioners to retire abroad instead of retiring in the U.K.

Adult population of UK c. 65 million
Under 19s = 14 million

so adult population = 51 million
over 70s = c. 7 million

so potential working population c. 44 million

you said in answer to :

We have millions of people on benefits many of whom could work but just don't want to. Unless we tackle this then we will keep needing immigrants.

5.3 million people

so that is a rough 1 in 8 working age persons you are saying is on the lam. I don't have any figures about people unable to work due to disability (but then neither does the government), so you also have to factor that in.

Translate that into your life now. 1 in 8 ?! It was never that high in the 80s, when you could live off the dole if you wanted.

These are all back of the fag packet calculations admittedly. But good enough to question the provenance and agenda of where yours came from. Possibly the same source that suggested there are 100 million people with a ticket to Dover or something.

I believe the number comes from the ONS but not sure it’s that high but it did suggest a worrying trend.

The 5.3m figure of people on out of work benefits allegedly comes from the DWP. It's been repeated in the Spectator several times over the last year - it may have changed since they got it.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-are-five-million-brits-without-work/#:~:text=5.3%20million%20remain%20on%20out%2Dof%2Dwork%20benefits&text=As%20Capital%20Economics%20has%20pointed,its%20lowest%20level%20since%202011.
Obviously the Spectator have their own agenda so there may be more to it than meets the eye. I assume that it includes everyone who's exempt from job seeking due to having young children or other caring needs which will be a fair number.

If you can be arsed to get onto a laptop on the DWP stats account and search (I CBA) you can see what their latest figures are and maybe find out whether there's anything not obvious about the figures.
https://stat-xplore.dwp.gov.uk/webapi/jsf/login.xhtml

I wonder if it's because once me and DH have retired to outer mongolia there is no way of checking if the recipient is still alive - it would be easy to just keep the money coming in.

The 5.3m figure of people on out of work benefits allegedly comes from the DWP.

You will have noticed they included a measure that I did not ?

Also I suspect there is a balance between people who are in work, but really shouldn't be.

Plus, I am immediately wary of a clunky phrase like "out of work benefits". Sounds a little like the equivalent of "people who menstruate" for statistics.

I was not aware of this rule until the other day and would like to see it end.

countries a lot of our best business on a plate . I have recently had to go to Germany and Netherlands and Eire- all to some extent have hit boom times partly because of Brexit and even with covid in the mix.

I'm no Brexit fan or anything but hasn't Germany just gone into recession?
And Dublin has literal immigrant shanty towns in the city now.

It already has. The owner of Itsu on the other day has had to increase wages three times and is asking for a two year visa to help fix the problem

He’d like to keep wages lower otherwise customers have to pay more

Illustrates perfectly why we have such terrible inflation, Itsu are forecasting huge growth but still turned a 40m profit last year, despite all this, any increase in wages must be paid for by putting prices up..... meanwhile the lower wages he'd like to pay, just has employees claiming in work benefits which the general tax payer funds.
To avoid paying more, he wants more immigrants to come to the UK, earning peanuts & putting further strain on public services and housing, which the tax payer, yet again, will be funding.

Capitalism with a socialist twist, as always.

Housing a big problem in Eire - I remember after the banking crash whole estates of empty uneeded houses.

This. They should be made to work or no benefits. Other than the incredibly ill or disabled. No more scroungers producing child after child and sitting on their arses whilst we pay tax to fund them.

Username checks out

Started early on the tipple did we?

Put them into work camps & their children adopted into hard working but childless families.
No reason why we should house and school the feckless and their children.

Seriously, how would you stop people having children and what would you do with the children of the adults who have had benefits stopped?

I don't think you ve thought any of this through have you?

@FrostyFifi maybe Germany are more honest about how they calculate recession? It Certainly doesn't feel like it when you are there. No different to uk leaving food out of inflation rates.

Dublin is a different thing- it has huge housing issues- incredibly expensive and not enough low cost housing . Not dissimilar to London - that's not the same thing as attracting businesses and investment , but yes it's a problem there for anyone on low/average incomes who hasn't got social housing.- not just immigrants

@Crikeyalmighty tbf I'm certain we'll be joining them soon enough since our dear chancellor pretty much threw his hands up yesterday and admitted it was the only way out of the inflationary spiral.

I do tend to agree with your assessment on what has happened with immigration re the expectations of Brexit voters who voted that way as a motivating factor, versus the reality of what is now taking place.