Immigrant rule on paying 20% less than going rate

[Crikeyalmighty]

I'm not quite sure how this passed me by in the list of ludicrous post Brexit stuff but reading today about the fact that in certain shortage occupations it is possible if using immigrants needing visas to pay up to 20% less than the going rate to obtain visas , provided it's more than minimum wage . Labour I believe want to outlaw it.

The figures today do not suprise me one bit- I have a desk in a centre that also does visa processing- for the last 6 months it has been wall to wall with families from developing countries . Not single youngish people but large families and clearly not all nuclear scientists or brain surgeons or however the gvt tried to make it sound as if it would all be super highly skilled immigration - and all will need medical and housing .

If anyone tries to tell me this makes sense rather than mainly single people here short term from the EU- sorry I'm not having it. At least in the EU we had reciprocal rights in places you possibly would choose to live and work or retire . This way it seems the traffic is all one way .

These are not the governments beloved subject of 'the boats' - this is people flying in with permission to work- I don't think many had this quite in mind when they voted to leave- although I always thought it would end up being the case.

I listened to the mayor of London saying he needs many more immigrants - as many as want to come. Goodness knows where they live but that isn't an issue for him. He said to build more houses.
London produces much of the tax which provide for the rest of the country - or at least the City of London does. I can't help feeling that providing 30,000 police (the Met) myriad of transport facilities (not found in the rest of the UK) actually costs too. Cost of benefits for thousands of low paid service industry workers (keeping things going in London) who I don't imagine can pay the rents etc there.
With attitudes like the mayor what hope is there of controlling things.
I live in a very large rural region and we have about 4 police on duty at a time and a shit bus and train service btw.

@user40643 I googled it and found several sources on mainstream media

@sunnydaysandhappythoughts the figure incapacity benefits, Jobseekers Allowance and 'workless' UC.

This does not include those in work and also claiming UC. That figure also runs into millions, I'm sure.

We dont. They are unemployable. People with long term MH issues, drug issues, criminal behaviour, learning needs, people who are long term carers for others

No he didn't, his office has released a statement on the latest immigration figures, he wants devolved powers, more training for UK workers and a better relationship with the EU.

But of course the present migration shambles is nothing to do with the Lord Mayor, its down to the Tory Govt, who have seen migration double since 2019.

I just find it unpalatable that someone who themselves is only in this country, and in privileged positions at that, (whether it was 2 , 4 or 6 generations ago) can't see the double standards in denying other people from abroad the right to travel, live and work here.

It's not about doctors etc all the time either.
Agriculture and horticulture need vast numbers of people.

But while these are unfavourable working pay and conditions- not to mention the hours and the nature of the work, people in this country do just turn their noses up at it.
Understandably so. Wages used to be low but with housing supplied this is rarely the case these days and farmers have turned them into holiday lets or expect a family to live in a mobile home.

Tories giving businesses legal ways to screw over workers?!

Who knew?! 🤷‍♀️

No , 38 mins into PM last night - we need and want more immigrants in London, 'we want you here, we need you here' (immigrants) - though qualified it by saying it needs planning.

And wants immigrants where they are needed, London, and not other parts of the country where they don't want them. Yeah! right. How you keep the immigrants in London once they're there I have no idea.

What no one every answers is what happens when the immigrants have children needing education, or they need medical care, or they grow old and need care home workers.
So it's just a big ponzi scheme.
The huge number of students sounds like a Boris Johnson 'let's stop the unis asking for more funding' plan.

Also the demands about lack of funding by Tory Gov to provide for immigrants (Mayor of London again) - so my taxes should be spent providing housing and schools in London for immigrants that I have no need for where I live. We do need doctors but they as far as I'm aware can afford to provide their own housing.

I live and work in London and travel around the South East.

It’s impossible to get and keep staff. I see all the local cafes hiring and losing staff on a huge turnover, I see “apply within” signs everywhere and I know SMEs paying £35K for basic admin jobs. I am waiting for a tradesman to do an urgent job for weeks now. GP surgeries are on their knees due to the issues in hiring permanent staff - doctors want to be locum or private for more money.

We have huge issues here: many British people don’t want the work or they want to work from home (impossible for many jobs) or on hours to suit them, productivity is low, affordable nurseries are non-existent. No-one wants to move to the capital or Manchester or Glasgow.. Work doesn’t pay for British people it seems so we need to plug the gaps with keen immigrants.

The economy will be dead if we can’t grow and then we can’t afford our bills (including large social bill for those non-workers). We need people willing and able to work.

On the point about immigrant families needing education for their children, may i remind people here that they have MUCH better outcomes in education than British children, especially white British boys. They will be the doctors and engineers of the future.
They will be the net contributors to the state.

Gilead · Yesterday 22:51
We do not have millions of people on benefits to lazy to work. We have millions of people working who also need benefits because we don’t pay properly. People on disability benefits are included in those figures too.
Oh, and the other people on the equivalent of job seekers, if they can’t prove they’re job hunting for a minimum period each week, they’re sanctioned. So very few are conning the system.

If you’re going to use an argument at least learn a bit about it first.

Finally, the largest part of the benefits bill is pensions.”

This. Plus 2.5 million on long-term sick leave because they can’t get NHS (which is kept going by immigrants) treatment.

Here's some data on people out of work for various reasons - whether on out of work benefits or not.

A majority of people on OOW benefits are exempt from job seeking requirements due to ill health or caring responsibilities.

Go and live somewhere else if you don't like it - except you can't because you have chosen to impose sanctions on yourself 😄. Meanwhile I can stay here as long as I bloody well like or go anywhere else in the EU.

@TeenagersAngst

Unfortunately the majority of the longer term unemployed are simply not fit (literally) for the jobs that need filling, manual labour, especially outside work like crop harvesting is hard graft, requires self discipline (working fast, turning up on time etc) they tried to hire local workers on a project a few years back where I used to live and despite providing free transport, lunch & drinks, and paying minimum wage plus £1 (significantly more than the benefits they were on) only half arrived for the coach the next day, by the end of the week all but one had quit. It's hard work!

There's not 5.2 million people who are unemployed in the sense of fit to work, there is a million or so though who would be considered suitable for the job market, some want to to but I've met those who choose to sabotage getting work through my job, its quite sad

Meanwhile hordes of economic migrants ("expats") from the UK are clogging up the rest of the world with their entitlement and non-existent language skills; how about we start a campaign to have them all recalled?

The whole thing is shit.

No one should be able to pay a specific group 20% less than another group.

But Toryconomics.

I think it's the cost of the visa that's 20% cheaper?

Transport for London wouldn't operate with immigration. Not just frontline operations but in the back offices and the corporate end too. Most of my colleagues are immigrants or children of immigrants or grandchildren of immigrants.

I can see why SK wants more migrants but he's doing bugger all to put the "resting" to any use. Excluding the carers/infirm/otherwise unable to work he should be putting efforts into people doing more voluntary or part-time work to help the economy.

PP was right, the hospitality industry is CRYING OUT for people in London, why not incentivise people to do that work? My favourite pub in the City has stopped offering lunches and Sunday dinners because the landlord can't get a cook to do them. Instead it's only evening meals. Then the pubs are taking in less revenue and close as a result.

We are not getting enough British people in professional roles because training in these roles in bloody expensive and where I am apprenticeships are more attractive because there is less debt at the end. So we HAVE to recruit from abroad. This has got worse especially in the medical profession because the doctors recruited in the 70s/80s/90s from India and Pakistan have retired or passed away now and the Government haven't made medicine an attractive occupation for Britons to go into.

People on MN talk about the Tories being hard on immigration.

It's bullshit. The Tories love immigration and have always encouraged it. Where else will their fat cat big business mates get cheap labour from? They don't care that the schools and doctors are overcrowded as they pay privately.

I've never understood why people who class themselves as socialists support mass immigration or were anti Brexit. The loss of cheap immigrant labour means that wages for indigenous working class people go up and there is less competition for low cost housing and public services? It's a no brainer surely?

Well that’s easy to answer. Covid is a mass disabling event and the healthcare system has collapsed so people are on waiting lists for ages and can’t get back to work.

Just because we’re pretending it’s over and just like flu doesn’t make it so. Not unlike pretending that Brexit would make immigration go down when it was obvious (and pointed out before the referendum) that it would just increase non EU immigration.

Sure, if you don't have a brain 🙄

Don't worry we've netted 700k of doctors, nurses and engineers in just this year alone.