Reasons for school suspensions in private Vs state

[Foxesandsquirrels]

I'll preface this as obviously being very anecdotal but I have noticed that kids in my DDs circle of friends (mainly made up of swimming club, old primary and orchestra so all from a mix of local London state schools and private schools) have a very different experience with suspensions. From what I've observed and from what they've told me, it is quite common to get suspended (previously called fixed term exclusions) for things you wouldn't get suspended for in a private school. As an example three scenarios:

Example 1:

• Girl in private school brings wine in a water bottle to school and her and her friend drink it in 2 lessons. By break time they're tipsy and get caught. School confiscate the drink, send them home and they're back in the next day. I know one of the mums and she said they got a letter and had to pick her daughter up. She got a warning but no suspension.

• Girl in state school in DDs friendship group does the same as she thinks the above is funny. She gets caught, and is suspended for 5 days. No prior behaviour records. Never really gets into trouble.

Example 2:

• Boy in swimming team attends private school, different to one above. Gets caught with cannabis in school and is high. This is last day of term. This is confiscated and parents are called in. Boy is allowed back in school as normal beginning of new term.

• Boy in state school, this one is a grammar and different to one above, is caught with cannabis on him. Less in amount than Boy 1. This boy gets permanently excluded immediately.

Example 3:

• Boy in private school brings knife to school. He is caught with it and it's confiscated. He is allowed back in on the Monday. This happened on Thursday. My DD only knows about this as her friend from example 1 is in the same tutor as him and they all go swimming together. So this is the one I'm least confident in, but I have no reason to doubt it happened.

• My DD is in a Food Tech lesson and a boy in her class who does tend to mess about, decides it's a good idea to try to do the hand trick with his knife. Where you stab in between your fingers. SLT is called and he is permanently excluded.

Obviously these two incidents with the knife are different and I don't know the ins and outs. I'm also not criticising any of these schools in particular. They all have their policies and ways of working. I don't doubt they all want the best for their students and the safety of others.

These are just some examples, there's tons more but those I can't verify really but it has started to make me think, whether it's just my area or is this the case in general. Even when I worked in state schools, 10 years ago, kids got suspended quite easily, especially internal suspensions where they're in isolation for 5 or so days.
I know I'm in the unusual position of my DD having friends in various schools, but has anyone else noticed this?
Again, please note I'm not criticising any school, they can do what they want, I'm just wondering whether this is just anecdotal or it is indeed a 'thing'.

[maranella]

TBH, those permanent exclusions for first offences seem really harsh to me. All are serious offences and all deserve a proper suspension, letter home, parents involved, but to permanently exclude when that pupil has always been well behaved beforehand? Overly harsh IMO.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@maranella

TBH, those permanent exclusions for first offences seem really harsh to me. All are serious offences and all deserve a proper suspension, letter home, parents involved, but to permanently exclude when that pupil has always been well behaved beforehand? Overly harsh IMO.

I agree completely. He was distraught and they tried to appeal. I tried my best to be completely neutral in terms of how I feel about each scenario tbh. I'm just trying to understand why there seems to be such a big difference between state and private when it comes to this sort of thing.

[elderflowerandpomelo]

hmm. Private’s seem to ‘ask people to leave’ pretty regularly. IME privates also horrendously enabling of bullying in a way that states absolutely don’t tolerate (if seen…)

[Malbecfan]

The cynic in me thinks it's down to money. Can private schools really afford to lose a pupil? In the state system, the LA has to find alternative provision so a student can be permanently excluded.

In my state school, anyone who brings drugs into school that are not prescribed by a medical professional is permanently excluded. Whilst that may seem harsh particularly if the students concerned are normally well-behaved, that's the rule. Otherwise, how on earth do you manage it? Is it 5 days' fixed-term exclusion for cannabis but 15 for crack? The student has the right to appeal but none has ever been upheld.

[Magnoliainbloom]

Suspension in my DC’s school is used eg child was the recipient of unwanted sexualised behaviour, racism, and was hit. The kids involved were suspended multiple times, and then the families withdrew the offenders (before school expelled them).

[Magnoliainbloom]

@elderflowerandpomelo

hmm. Private’s seem to ‘ask people to leave’ pretty regularly. IME privates also horrendously enabling of bullying in a way that states absolutely don’t tolerate (if seen…)

I think this is spot on. There is some appalling behaviour at DC’s school - school seems to have a high threshold for bad behaviour, but they need to retain the 💷💷💷.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Magnoliainbloom

Suspension in my DC’s school is used eg child was the recipient of unwanted sexualised behaviour, racism, and was hit. The kids involved were suspended multiple times, and then the families withdrew the offenders (before school expelled them).

Is this private? Unwanted sexual behaviour would be a permanent exclusion at my DDs state school. I'm a bit shocked it wouldn't in other places. Obviously depending on what it was but you know what I mean.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Magnoliainbloom

I think this is spot on. There is some appalling behaviour at DC’s school - school seems to have a high threshold for bad behaviour, but they need to retain the 💷💷💷.

This is what I'm really noticing. Private schools having quite a high threshold for bad behaviour. I didn't know whether it was just my observation as I'm certainly not in that world. These are all quite popular London schools, so I'm not sure they'd struggle replacing the excluded student.

[SuperSange]

The private schools I've worked in would absolutely exclude for drugs and knives at a first offence. Perhaps you're at a more lenient one.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@SuperSange

The private schools I've worked in would absolutely exclude for drugs and knives at a first offence. Perhaps you're at a more lenient one.

Did you even read my OP?

[Vitriolinsanity]

At my child's Private they'll dish out a detention for what at the state schools I work at do eg homework, uniforms etc

Their specialty punishment is Saturday an the Heads office. Everyone gets buggered by this one as the Parents have to drop off and pick up and attend a meeting.

This tends to get the Parents on board with leaning down hard on behaviour.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Vitriolinsanity

At my child's Private they'll dish out a detention for what at the state schools I work at do eg homework, uniforms etc

Their specialty punishment is Saturday an the Heads office. Everyone gets buggered by this one as the Parents have to drop off and pick up and attend a meeting.

This tends to get the Parents on board with leaning down hard on behaviour.

What sorts of things would need to happen to warrant a Saturday detention in your childs private school?

[Magnoliainbloom]

@Foxesandsquirrels

Is this private? Unwanted sexual behaviour would be a permanent exclusion at my DDs state school. I'm a bit shocked it wouldn't in other places. Obviously depending on what it was but you know what I mean.

My son was “humped” by another boy. School investigated immediately, questioned other kids who were witness to it, checked cctv footage and suspended the kid. When I spoke to the teacher, he took it seriously but said it was silly behavior. I asked if they would take that view if it had happened to a girl and sounded like he was minimizing it. Child had ADHD and was given a lot of chances/suspensions for appalling behavior but parents withdrew him in the end.

[Magnoliainbloom]

Just to say, the level of bad behaviour at my child’s prep was nothing compared to what we’ve experienced in his first year at secondary. Not sure if it’s because kids are going through puberty, wider influence of social media, mobile phones, different thresholds of acceptable behaviour by parents.

At the prep, I think all the parents took a conservative approach to behaviour and this was reinforced by school - the kids, on the whole, were very well-behaved.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Magnoliainbloom

My son was “humped” by another boy. School investigated immediately, questioned other kids who were witness to it, checked cctv footage and suspended the kid. When I spoke to the teacher, he took it seriously but said it was silly behavior. I asked if they would take that view if it had happened to a girl and sounded like he was minimizing it. Child had ADHD and was given a lot of chances/suspensions for appalling behavior but parents withdrew him in the end.

Was this a private school?

[Nothingbuttheglory]

2 incidents:-

Two students deliberately exposed another to a substance to which he was severely allergic, resulting in a hospital visit.

A student deliberately stamped on the lower spine of another who was lying on the floor.

In both incidents the consequence for the perp(s) was a telling-off. One was private, one state (the state school was a famously shit school though).

[Beenhereageskeepchangingname]

It’s money

it’s a business- you won’t turn away paying customers unless it’s last port of call

there isn’t much that doesn’t come back to money imo

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Nothingbuttheglory

2 incidents:-

Two students deliberately exposed another to a substance to which he was severely allergic, resulting in a hospital visit.

A student deliberately stamped on the lower spine of another who was lying on the floor.

In both incidents the consequence for the perp(s) was a telling-off. One was private, one state (the state school was a famously shit school though).

Wow. Was the private also famously crap? See the thing I'm noticing is that the way private schools tend to handle incidents, is what I would expect from a badly run state school with a bad rep. One that can't be asked with the paperwork of a proper suspension.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Beenhereageskeepchangingname

It’s money

it’s a business- you won’t turn away paying customers unless it’s last port of call

there isn’t much that doesn’t come back to money imo

I do agree with you and I did think that. It makes complete sense to keep bums on seats as long as possible and especially in exam years as those are the most expensive to staff and hardest to replace pupils in. However, the private schools I'm talking about are extremely oversubscribed. They can replace their pupils easily. Maybe not late into Y10 or Y11 but for sure outside of that.

[GrammarTeacher]

Most state schools are zero tolerance on drugs and knives I would have thought. I'm surprised independents aren't.
Parents and students are aware that being caught with drugs will be treated that way.

[Connect3]

From my experience of working in a PRU, state schools seem to have a zero tolerance to drugs, alcohol and anything that could be classed as a weapon, but let disruptive behaviour go on for a really long time before "doing" something. Usually those children have either trauma or undiagnosed SN (or both) and could/should have been helped much sooner. It also means we get some kids who've done one stupid thing and really don't belong in a PRU.

I think maybe private schools take the opposite approach and let things that can be considered a one off go, but don't tolerate repeated disruption.

[Vitriolinsanity]

Actually @Foxesandsquirrels very little. I was explaining it to primary state kids last week, they were horrified 😁

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Connect3

From my experience of working in a PRU, state schools seem to have a zero tolerance to drugs, alcohol and anything that could be classed as a weapon, but let disruptive behaviour go on for a really long time before "doing" something. Usually those children have either trauma or undiagnosed SN (or both) and could/should have been helped much sooner. It also means we get some kids who've done one stupid thing and really don't belong in a PRU.

I think maybe private schools take the opposite approach and let things that can be considered a one off go, but don't tolerate repeated disruption.

That's a really interesting point and I have to agree with you regarding the state schools not picking things up quickly and that leads to worsening behaviours. I just don't think they have the resources even when they want to. My DDs state school is very strict and behaviour is quite good for the most part, but they are very heavy handed when it comes to suspensions and permanent exclusions. They have a lot of SEN pupils though and I know they deal with them differently. Depending on area, state schools for the most part have to deal with a lot more 'social services' type situations than privates as well, so the support they can give in school, with all the will in the world will be limited in comparison to the child's needs due to their home life or other factors.
However, I'm not sure the disruption is any lower in some private schools. It may not be the same type of disruption but it's certainly there. The things my DDs friend tells me or shows me videos of don't sound much different to a crappy state tbh. This is a very sought after N London independent.
I think the reason private school kids will likely never step foot in a PRU is their parents will find somewhere else before they ever allow that to happen. They'll likely be warned before an expulsion happens and given a chance to take their leave. They will have funds to explore a diagnosis and get outside help without the CAMHS weighting list stopping them. Obviously not always. I do feel sorry for the kids in a PRU that are there due to one stupid decision.

[Foxesandsquirrels]

@Vitriolinsanity

Actually @Foxesandsquirrels very little. I was explaining it to primary state kids last week, they were horrified 😁

Ah ok. They do it at my DDs state school too. You go there if you missed the hour long detention in the week. Detentions are also useless if you just go, sit down and leave. There should be a conversation with the child to figure out the root of the problem and a plan put in place to help them. I certainly wouldn't expect a detention to be in place instead of suspension.

[MissyB1]

I think it's possibly not a state V private issue, but more crap school discipline wehther state or private? There is a supposedly well thought of state high school in our town where the bullying is horrendous, and rarely ever dealt with. I know several staff who work there and they have all confirmed this to me.

There is also a private school in our town that my nephew attends. A boy in his year (year 9) slapped a girl hard across the face in the middle of a lesson (so yes teacher was there), he recieved a one day suspension. All the pupils were disgusted.