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Original poster

Working or Middle Class?

188 replies

WedTheBed · 01/05/2023 03:36

What’s the difference between them? As in.. what does one have to be middle class that working class don’t have?

I was talking to my friend, and I made a comment about being working class which she looked at me in shock and said I’m not working class, I’m middle.. but I don’t know how. I feel like we don’t really have anything to show to be middle class?😂

light hearted* I’m just interested to see what people interpret.

OP posts:
IDontWantToBeAPie · 01/05/2023 13:07

I think people think you have to stick to the class you were born as. Of course aristocracy etc do, but I was raised WC (dad electrician, mum SAHM both stopped school at GGCSE/Alevels).

Now I have a BA, an MA, a professional job and own a home. I'm MC now, it would be weird to say I was WC when I'm clearly not in anything bar my childhood and possibly my accent.

Flowersun6 · 01/05/2023 13:39

IDontWantToBeAPie · 01/05/2023 13:07

I think people think you have to stick to the class you were born as. Of course aristocracy etc do, but I was raised WC (dad electrician, mum SAHM both stopped school at GGCSE/Alevels).

Now I have a BA, an MA, a professional job and own a home. I'm MC now, it would be weird to say I was WC when I'm clearly not in anything bar my childhood and possibly my accent.

Your example is ironic. Plenty of electricians earn well. A friend of mine didn't realise... I asked how she thought the electrician was managing to put 2 kids through private school.

Mark19735 · 01/05/2023 14:31

The rate of pay is a bit of a red herring. So is your level of education. It's more about scalability. If you have to work to make ends meet, and if you have to work additional hours in order to earn more money, then you are working class - doesn't matter what your hourly rate is. Anyone who gets overtime is working class.

If enough of your income to live off derives from trade (trading goods, trading knowledge) then you were historically middle class. Nowadays, you may be quite poor for much of your life, but with a fair wind there is potentially no upside to your earnings. JK Rowling is middle class. So is James Dyson. So is any trader, entrepreneur, banker or anyone in a restricted profession, like a barrister or surgeon etc. To earn more money, they don't need to put in extra hours, they just need to top slice off a bigger deal, land a bigger client or place bigger bets (or win a greater percentage of them).

If enough of your income to live on derives from land or property you own outright, you are upper class. Usually this means agricultural land, not just residential property.

What's tricky these days is there are some jobs that have characteristics of more than one class (usually working and middle). Junior doctor, for example. And there are many people who have characteristics of more than one class (usually middle and upper). For instance, the student loans system means many professionals formerly in roles considered middle class are in fact indentured labourers for most of their working life (e.g. airline pilot). And generous inheritance allowances coupled with ridiculous property prices have meant many people can earn a living from owning just a couple of houses, yet they are a long way from being upper class.

gerbilcrocus · 01/05/2023 16:53

Working class prefer football
Middle class prefer rugby

It's as simple as that.

MeetMyCat · 01/05/2023 16:58

gerbilcrocus · 01/05/2023 16:53

Working class prefer football
Middle class prefer rugby

It's as simple as that.

Oh dear, we like both?

wildfirewonder · 01/05/2023 17:04

IDontWantToBeAPie · 01/05/2023 13:07

I think people think you have to stick to the class you were born as. Of course aristocracy etc do, but I was raised WC (dad electrician, mum SAHM both stopped school at GGCSE/Alevels).

Now I have a BA, an MA, a professional job and own a home. I'm MC now, it would be weird to say I was WC when I'm clearly not in anything bar my childhood and possibly my accent.

Do you feel you have changed class, alongside your education and job?

People who are middle class on paper can still feel working class, IYSWIM.

PrincessHoneysuckle · 01/05/2023 17:06

Working class with middle class tastes

MeetMyCat · 01/05/2023 17:10

I’ve just done the bbc class test, apparently I am ‘technical middle class’, whatever that means!

Original poster
WedTheBed · 01/05/2023 19:25

My parents are definitely working class, my grandparents definitely upper middle class.

I thought maybe I was upper working class.. but the calculator puts me at ‘technical middle class’ whatever that might mean 😂

My children won’t go to private school, and we own relatively boring cars.. nothing fancy.
But we do own our home.

Dfriend thinks he tee middle class because we have over £1k disposable income after bills - but I’m not sure disposable income really determines class? I do have a higher education.. I don’t use it anymore as I get paid a lot more to do a job that requires no HE qualification. DH is a mechanic for a very prestige company, see’s a few famous faces (mostly their cars though) 😂

So I’m not sure! It doesn’t really matter at the end of the day, I couldn’t give the foggiest what class someone might think I belong. I base my judgment of people purely on their attitude and personality 😂

OP posts:
Original poster
WedTheBed · 01/05/2023 19:26

@gerbilcrocus i don’t like either.. but I do like the races.

OP posts:
YouNeverSeeTheRealMe · 01/05/2023 19:29

I'm working class and proud of it. Grew up in absolute poverty but things improved.

A friend of mine works (in a pub and as a cleaner), as does her husband (Sales), they live in a very nice house, but which is on one of the worst estates in the town - she reckons they're middle class. If it makes her happy 😁

DancingWithTheMoonlitKnight · 01/05/2023 19:44

I don't think owning your own house is an indicator of class. Plenty of WC people own their own homes. They don't all live in SH as MN would have you believe.

Darklane · 01/05/2023 19:50

Anyone who has to work for a living is working class…..simple.

Cam22 · 01/05/2023 19:57

MeetMyCat · 01/05/2023 09:41

It's all so daft now. I personally don't think there is much of a middle class left since 'uneducated' manual jobs such as builders could and do earn more than many 'middle class' roles.

Very good point. How do you untangle class from wealth? The wealthiest person I know is a drainage contractor, he set up a company which has done incredibly well, fabulous house, cars, kids at private school etc. But I guess he would be working class?

Correct. It’s not about money.

Beezknees · 01/05/2023 20:01

I don't actually think you change class. Your childhood and background are what shape you.

Prince William wouldn't suddenly change to become working class if he started doing shifts down at Tesco.

MeetMyCat · 01/05/2023 21:01

Interesting thread! Apparently I’m technical middle class (?) but I do like a nice TUI all inclusive package holiday. If there had been a question about this, I suspect the conclusion may have been different …

Flowersun6 · 01/05/2023 21:09

DancingWithTheMoonlitKnight · 01/05/2023 19:44

I don't think owning your own house is an indicator of class. Plenty of WC people own their own homes. They don't all live in SH as MN would have you believe.

Exactly how far up your own arse can one be 😅

Trebormints74 · 01/05/2023 21:18

No they are middle class jobs.

updin · 01/05/2023 21:21

I remember another measure of class was how messy your kids and house are, the scruffier your kids and house, the less you need to prove and thus the higher class you are....according to MN land....

UWhatNow · 01/05/2023 21:35

🙄…As per usual on these threads there are the earnest posts from people who’ve clearly never properly met a working class person in their life but can confidently categorise that we are all Benidorm-loving, pitbull-owning, unread, criminal thickos.

I’m a complete chav but to paraphrase Chris Rock I identify as middle class… degree and post grad qualifications, shop at Waitrose, theatre goer, listen to radio 4, church-goer, we cook and eat like Nigel Slater, read The Guardian etc. Many of my WC peer group are wealthy with beautiful tasteful homes and gardens and a love of the finer, cultured things in life. Our children are all intelligent and have grown up to be decent citizens with good jobs and social integrity.

Working class people may not have generations of highly educated antecedents or inherited wealth but it doesn’t mean we are lesser human beings. I wish some on this thread would remember that.

DancingWithTheMoonlitKnight · 01/05/2023 21:39

UWhatNow · 01/05/2023 21:35

🙄…As per usual on these threads there are the earnest posts from people who’ve clearly never properly met a working class person in their life but can confidently categorise that we are all Benidorm-loving, pitbull-owning, unread, criminal thickos.

I’m a complete chav but to paraphrase Chris Rock I identify as middle class… degree and post grad qualifications, shop at Waitrose, theatre goer, listen to radio 4, church-goer, we cook and eat like Nigel Slater, read The Guardian etc. Many of my WC peer group are wealthy with beautiful tasteful homes and gardens and a love of the finer, cultured things in life. Our children are all intelligent and have grown up to be decent citizens with good jobs and social integrity.

Working class people may not have generations of highly educated antecedents or inherited wealth but it doesn’t mean we are lesser human beings. I wish some on this thread would remember that.

All of this.

NashvilleQueen · 01/05/2023 22:11

Just to say I'm the poster who said that there are some things for which there is a greater perception of MC or WC and listed holidays and dogs. I stand by the fact that they attract a perception around class but, as I made clear, it's not always the reality.

In case it's relevant I grew up in a staunchly WC household. I am occasionally embarrassed to find myself adopting a lot of MC cliches but I don't for a moment see myself as authentically MC. Lots of my friends earn way less than me and haven't attained as much in academic or professional terms insofar as that's worth something but their parents were professionals and had a wholly different upbringing to me. I feel very different to them in lots of ways.

If anyone thought I was being disparaging of typically working class culture then that's wrong. I'm more likely to have a Labrador than a xl bully but equally way more inclined to go to Benidorm than Aspen. As I said the lines are much more blurred these days and that's a good thing.

Beingboredisgoodforyou · 01/05/2023 22:40

squidwid · 01/05/2023 06:10

I consider myself working class but I have a masters degree. It's a way of thinking that I'm yet to break free of.

Women stay home to look after the kids, men go out to work. Working more as a community. Being there for your neighbours. Working an honest job.

Stating that women stay at home is a myth perpetuated by middle and upper class women who didn't have to work. Some working class women have always stayed at home but the vast majority of working class women need to work to survive and provide for their families and have always done so. https://www.womenchainmakers.org.uk/babies-in-the-chain-shop/
https://phm.org.uk/blogposts/the-match-girls-strike/
Happy International Workers Day

BABIES IN THE CHAIN SHOP | Women Chainmakers

https://www.womenchainmakers.org.uk/babies-in-the-chain-shop

JaneyGee · 01/05/2023 22:40

I’d say manners/ knowing how to behave or conduct yourself, etc, are what really count. For me, education, taste and reading habits are the most important things. I’m far more impressed by someone who reads serious literature (Dickens, Shakespeare, Henry James etc), visits art galleries, has good taste, and appreciates beauty than I am by income, address or job title. If you are ignorant and vulgar, then money changes nothing.

Class is a funny thing. It’s hard to define, yet we all know it when we see it.

SleepingStandingUp · 01/05/2023 22:48

gerbilcrocus · 01/05/2023 16:53

Working class prefer football
Middle class prefer rugby

It's as simple as that.

I don't like either, what an I? Rather go to the theatre