Working or Middle Class?

[WedTheBed]

What’s the difference between them? As in.. what does one have to be middle class that working class don’t have?

I was talking to my friend, and I made a comment about being working class which she looked at me in shock and said I’m not working class, I’m middle.. but I don’t know how. I feel like we don’t really have anything to show to be middle class?😂

light hearted* I’m just interested to see what people interpret.

The class system is so antiquated now and quite pointless in the modern era, I hope it diminishes to nothing eventually as all this division is meant to make the top look like they are more relevant than they really are.

This, people cling to it though

@redbuttontop

Absolutely. I'm a nurse ( we are degree educated by the way!) but I'm a now a senior lecturer. I have friends who are electricians who earn more money and their kids are educated privately.

It's an outdated and obsolete way to try to stereotype.

@hattie43 Is "feral" the new term for Charles Murray's "underclass"?

To dismiss the class divide is to dismiss the reality that British society is less socially mobile than it was 40 years ago.

There is still too much that divides people over and above just being able to afford things, but also income and wealth are not the same.

The concept of 'cultural capital' is very middle class-oriented.

You only have to look at how narrow the range of people in journalism, architecture, surgery, law, politics etc etc etc to see the class divide is still wide.

Feral was first widely introduced by a chief constable or A N other high ranking police officer to describe a different type of person they were now engaged with . I'd not heard the term before .

Calling people feral is disgusting @hattie43

If I heard you use the term I would be embarrassed for you, as it shows a lack of both compassion and education.

I am from a WC background - parents in manual jobs, not a lot of money, no overseas holidays etc.
But my degree and professional job means I am very much the MC now.

No it doesn't . It shows a category that's outside working / middle class . The term is used everywhere in the media and by various commentators. If you haven't heard it maybe you aren't the educated one keeping abreast of current thinking .

The class system in the UK is a scourge.
I'd say it is also predicated on one's ability to pass on capital wealth or property.
Also, growing up in a country where the working class was revered as the operational backbone of the nation's prosperity, my parents were, if not on the bones of their arses, at least living very modestly, working traditional working class jobs. But because cultural and leisure activities were not aligned with class in the same way as is prevalent in the UK, working class people like us were more generally engaging in recreational study, local and regional politics and sundry activism, book clubs, playing musical instruments, going to the theatre and recitals, debating current affairs and outdoor pursuits.
It is useful for me to have this lens through which to view the common perception of class in the UK, where recreational and social habits seem to, in part, inform the assignment of a specific class to a person. Which seems absolutely nuts and reductionist to me.

Though traditionally, working class women often worked as the money was needed and upper working class and middle class women stayed at home with children. Education and then higher costs of living ended this situation.

What's upper middle class - when you get out of the swimming pool to do one?

Upper class is when you have your own pool of course and piss in it freely.

Of course I've heard of it.

It is a disgusting term that says a lot about those who use it.

No good person talks of other humans in dehumanising language. Ever.

@wildfirewonder I am not dismissing it I am saying it is totally irrelevant in to be applied as it was in last century, today. To aspire to be or stay mc in the U.K. makes very little sense and yet you see so much of this attitude going on.

@Darhon there are still a great many upper class women who don't work in the U.K. under this premise. They may partake in charitable work but not actual work.

Which commentators?
Never heard it on the BBC, but then they do have standards that are regulated.
Are you talking about the radio shows, LBC, GB news type ones? Because they are made to make people dislike each other. And it works. Adding in feral, I assume it's to appeal to the "they shouldn't spend MY taxpayer money" brigade.

And it makes some grunts feel better I guess, having a whole supposed class of people beneath them.

wildfirewonder, absolutely. Every word of that.

hattie, terminology such as 'feral' to describe the disadvantaged, irrespective of who uses it, ought to make you sit up and pay close attention. Purposely derogatory and divisive, it is shifting blame onto a group of people for systemic failure of the institutions of the state to keep safe and support all citizens. Of course it is used, nobody is disputing that, but by whom? And to what end?

Not sure you can say anything meaningful about civil service indicating a particular class. All the civil servants I know are Sir Humphrey types- definitely not working class!

The job you do is part of it but obviously doesn't capture everything people are conveying when they talk about something being MC. And I'm not sure I agree with PP about just dismissing it all as daft as there definitely are boundaries in place that make it harder for people from WC backgrounds in certain careers- when I started as a trainee solicitor every single one of my 30 fellow trainees was unarguably middle class. Things are a bit better now but not much- classism is a real thing.

If I had to pick one thing that I think makes a meaningful difference between what people tend to group together as being WC or MC, it's the sense that MC people have something material to fall back on, a sort of solidity of base. So you can afford, say, to spend years studying post-grad to become a lawyer rather than going straight to work. You get given second chances. You can fuck up and have another go.

I reckon you can make a fairly accurate assumption about someone's "class" by which newspaper they read.

Ignore the income, builders earn more than doctors argument and have a look at where they seek out their information.

Middle class you can retire before state pension age

Overall, but clearly there are exceptions.The middle class drop multiple cultural references into chart broadly covering - the arts, education, aspiration, language used, behaviour, jobs. These seem natural and normal to them.

The working class, regardless of whether they have a good job, degree etc aren’t as interested in the Works of Plato or the Renaissance. Where their kids are educated isn’t going to be a topic for dinner parties. Culturally, they have quite different interests. For example while a middle class family will happily go for a walk after Sunday lunch, the wc family will be wondering why they want to get wet and dirty for no reason. Unless they have dogs, of course.

Actually you could say this year middle class was if you could put the heating on during winter.

Yeah requirements to be middle class are going rapidly downhill. Nothing to celebrate really

FixIt, this is true; "the sense that MC people have something material to fall back on, a sort of solidity of base."
This forms the basis for an entirely different way of projecting one's life and making decisions.

And after the roast and bracing Sunday walk in the rain if you come home and your toilet flushes up Plato won't help!

You have described snobbery. It's a different thing.

I agree FixItDuck My parents were just about lower middle class (sales rep and late qualified social worker). I attended an independent girls’ school on an assisted place. After school, I really noticed the freedom school friends had to travel during uni holidays, try out different jobs etc. I had to work, and trained early for a professional role. My parents encouraged stability and security because for them this option was a privilege.

Our financial (and class, I married a very posh man) arrangements are different and I feel happy for my kids that they will have a chance to travel, can try different things, can stay at the London for for study and work experience. Although I am hoping they’ll find a middle ground as I’ve seen kids from wealthier families really struggle to find a purpose and work ethic.

Ferals do nothing but live outside societies expected norms . They are a drain on society serving no useful purpose at all

Celebrities, royals, the aristocracy...that kind of thing?

Surprised by this thread and the lack of understanding of the British class system when it’s so hotly debated.

class isn’t about who has the most money. Class is very simply working class earn a wage, paid by the hour, in semi skilled unskilled work in industrial or manual type settings .

middle,class is salaried, in skilled work that needed further education or qualifications in what would be classified as a professional or a business.

as such, the person with the health visitor and civil servant parent, their parents were middle class. What the poster is, remains to be seen. As she isn’t her parents.

she may have been raised middle class, doesn’t mean she is now.