Are people as tough on their kids as they say they are?

[CurlewKate]

I do wonder if people are as tough on their kids as they say they are on here and as they advise other mumsnetters to be? Because I know I'm not! And it does seem that anyone who admits to being a bit soft on their kids is jumped on and told they are "doing them no favours." I believe passionately in modelling kindness. I think you learn more and better lessons from that than from toughness. And I suspect that many others are the same, but feel it's not acceptable to admit to it.

Can you give some examples?

I think you can be tough (which I'd define as having high standards and expectations) and kind. As a parent it's often hard to get the balance between allowing natural consequences and your child having to live with the natural consequences of choices they made at an age when they were too young to understand how those choices would pan out.

Of course there are some children who are just massively intrinsically motivated across the board and I'm very jealous of their parents

I am tough when it comes to discipline, it drives me mad when parents come on here complaining about their children's behaviour at 10+ years old and then admit they have never had any consequences for their behaviour before.
Sometimes it is kinder to set expectations for behaviour from day one rather than waiting years and exploding at them down the line for something you haven't taught them.
I am more relaxed when it comes to school, I expect them to do their best and they know that, I don't push for them to be the best though.

More brutally honest with the age appropriate.

Can break their hearts occasionally.
Best they hear it from me.

But we are soft. H more so. We love them.
They are decent kids though, makes it much easier.

I’ve always considered myself firm but fair. I never shouted or smacked my children but from a young age they always knew that I meant what I said. If they hit out as a toddler they were told that it wasn’t something that was done and they were asked whether they would like it if we were to hit them if they did something I didn’t like, which of course they didn’t want (and I would never do, it seemed the most logical way to get them to understand when they were little) and they never tried to hit again. Dinner was a battle for me growing up and I didn’t want to do the same as my parents so they were never forced to finish a meal but they were expected to try new things. If they didn’t like it, no problem and because they knew I meant it they would try new foods. They had to ask to leave the table until about 10. Whenever I heard “but everyone is doing it/has one/is going” I would tell them that I don’t care about everyone else. We would compromise on time to come home and they would have to be ready to be picked up at that time or next time would be earlier. I never tolerated sulking, if you have a problem with me and want I’ve said or done, tell me. We ate dinner together unless someone was busy elsewhere. They did their own packed lunches for school from year 2, so about 7 and from 16 did their own laundry. They’ve never sworn at me but do swear a normal amount but if it wasn’t in the context of an anecdote or joke as teenagers I would call them up on it because I didn’t want it to become part of their day to day vocabulary. If something happened that I needed to speak to them about I always told them to tell the truth and they wouldn’t be in trouble but if they lied, when I find out, which I will, they would be in trouble. They always would tell the truth. I’ve always said that you should own mistakes because everyone makes them. They are 23 and 21 now and they’re great young adults who are sociable, can engage with others and know their own minds, I love them so much and the people they have become.

It's kind to have clear rules for kids. Chopping and changing what they can and can't do is really unfair.
My 4 kids are adults now and I raised them with certain rules that I wouldn't be flexible over but because I was consistent with these rules there wasn't an issue.

An example would be computer time. My kids loved playing computers and I allowed them an hour a day. It was a strict one hour limit and if they didn't stop when the time finished they would loose computer privileges for the following day and if they still complained they would loose computer privilidges for the week) This meant we never had any aggro with computer time. They could play every day without any fuss. If I chopped and changed the times then we would have ended up arguing about it - my way was 'stricter' but more enjoyable for me AND for them. It didn't mean I wasn't able to be flexible when I wanted to be but the kids saw that as a treat rather than something they should expect. My way worked with my kids and I almost never had to withdraw computer privileges.

My kids weren't perfect and neither was I but I preferred my way of doing discipline than more child led ones.

I think being consistent is incredibly important to kids. Giving in to whinging or tantruming or letting kids get away with bad behaviour isn't 'kind' it's lazy and isn't in the kids interests.

@illiterato An example that springs to mind is the perennial forgotten homework/lunch/clarinet/PE kit. The usual Mumsnet response is "Let them deal with the consequences." If I could do it without massive inconvenience, I would always drop whatever it was off. Because I don't really think people learn from their mistakes-it's not as if they left whatever it was behind on purpose. But me dropping it off if I could taught them that it's good to do kind things and have kind things done for you. Caveat- the merest hint of rudeness or entitlement, or lack of gratitude or strop if I COULDN'T do it or reluctance to help out me or anyone else if they could and there would have been blood for breakfast!

No. I don't believe a lot of things on here.... and I wouldn't always take others advice based on MN.

Its easy to judge when it's not your life. I think TOO many people read things and things for gospel.

@MagiMagic I didn't give in to whining or tantruming either. But I don't believe in absolute rigid rules. I was pretty strict about computer time too. But if someone came to me and said "I'm in the middle of this game with Fred and he can't play tomorrow-can I have an extra half hour?" and homework and so on was done I'd probably say yes.

It's hard to say without examples OP, what sort of thing are you thinking about when you ask whether people are as tough on their children as they say?

I agree with PPs that you can be firm but fair, have strict rules but be kind. I've always felt that children respond better when there are boundaries and they know where they stand and what's what. There was a thread on here today or yesterday with a poster saying about her children getting up at 4.30 or 5am and how tired she was. That's something that I just did not tolerate with DDs. They were consistently sleep trained and if they got up at 5am I treated that as being the middle of the night and they were quietly taken back to bed. Over, and over again and it was knackering for a few weeks at a time whenever they tried it on but they're now consistently great sleepers and know that before 7am is time for sleep or doing something quietly e.g. reading.

That's just an example but I'm reasonably firm with other aspects e.g. mealtimes. I don't force them to eat if they don't want to but they aren't getting anything else cooked for them....the fruit bowl is always available. They're allowed to not like something but they have to try it before saying they don't like it. I encourage them to be adventurous and tell tham that they don't want to grow up to be fussy eaters as that's a pain (unless someone is neurodiverse.) Result is they're great eaters.

Hopefully not!! I'm a firm believer in them knowing your 'the boss' or in charge when they are little as I think if they respect you then you will have far less problems when they approach teenage years. I agree with that proverb about 'show me the boy at 7 and i will show you the man'. A look was all mine needed to toe the line if out in public and never had tantrums in shops. However, I was judged for allowing my children to sneak into my bed in the night and other 'kindnesses' that my overly strict mother would never have allowed........I'm still scared of her and she's 90😳 I can't have done too bad a job as two of my adult sons are choosing to live with me at the moment🤔

Really? I'm often shocked by how permissive people on here are. There's a thread at the moment where a mum has been called abusive for grounding her DD after DD called her a bitch. And all those threads where people say teenagers shouldn't have to study full time in the run up to exams because "mental health". Not to mention all the ones where if the DC has divorced parents they are effectively not to blame for any of their poor behaviour.

I would never smack or use physical punishment on a child but I am strict with discipline. I never allowed my children to run rings around me as some parents do. I only allow 1 1/2 hours on computer week nights and 2 hours each day over the weekend. When posters come on here and say my child games all the time and does no homework, I just think that is because they allow it. My children had chores to do every week. They were rewarded well for doing them and I always drove them to sports and music lessons etc. My adult children are all sensible, disciplined adults who can budget properly and work hard. I am very glad my dd brings up my dgs' in the same way.

Maybe it just feels strict if it's something that you would be laxer about and feels soft if it's something that's important to you to hold a line on?

I must admit, I have never taken anything forgotten into school, it's not particularly because I think it's the morally correct way to deal with it, it's just been the case that it's never been logistically simple for me to do that and I don't remember my mum ever doing it for me. Kids forget stuff all the time, because they're kids, and schools have systems to deal with it. If the child doesn't get to do PE for the day, has to eat a school dinner, or gets into trouble for not-done homework, none of these things is the end of the world! If it was something like a permission slip for a trip that day or there were dietary issues etc then I would try to make sure it got sorted, but I'd probably just phone the secretary and hope to sort it that way.

I am a total pushover by MN standards so that's an anomaly really

I think you can be kind and flexible towards your kids while also nurturing their self reliance and independence.

I do a lot for my dd, and she would probably tell you that I'm quite soft on her, but I have tried to prepare her effectively for her adult life, and that involves getting her to take responsibility for her own stuff.

I don't think it is kind to baby your children in the way that was being described on the other thread, OP. It is not helping them at all.

I think I just did what felt natural to me, and it often looked either very permissive or very strict to other people, but to me it was just comfortable and felt right.

So, our kids slept with us and fed on demand for as long as they chose, were messy and dirty and free-wheeling in many ways, could stay home from school if they wanted (only happened once in a blue moon, usually for a very good reason). I would go out of my way to bring them their forgotten lunch, comfort them for their own carelessness, do little things to smooth their path.

They also ate almost no sugar and junk as small children, were vegetarian from birth, had no access to any screens at all until our eldest was 12 (2007), went to lots of long classical music concerts and sat quietly when they were tiny, were expected to include mildly annoying kids at their birthday parties (and be kind to them), and various other things which people on here see as borderline abusive.

Have your kids grown to adulthood yet?

Our ideas can be very different when they're little, and we often regret them when they get a bit older.

I'd do that too. I be rigid about some things though.

@NeatCompactSleeper Yep. Both adults and out in the world.

@MagiMagic I'm trying to think if there was anything I was rigid strict about. Table manners. Not saying cruel things to other people or themselves. Not doing anything that would make me look like a bad mother if they went missing and I had to do an appeal on TV.

Give an example. What are you referring to. In some ways I'm tough as old boots. In other ways Dh says I'm too soft.

I'm very lax about screen time. My 2 sometimes play x box all day. I've only needed to drop pe kit to school twice. Other things I'm incredibly strict.

I gave an example at 16.06-here it is again. I think it sums up what I mean.
"An example that springs to mind is the perennial forgotten homework/lunch/clarinet/PE kit. The usual Mumsnet response is "Let them deal with the consequences." If I could do it without massive inconvenience, I would always drop whatever it was off. Because I don't really think people learn from their mistakes-it's not as if they left whatever it was behind on purpose. But me dropping it off if I could taught them that it's good to do kind things and have kind things done for you. Caveat- the merest hint of rudeness or entitlement, or lack of gratitude or strop if I COULDN'T do it or reluctance to help out me or anyone else if they could and there would have been blood for breakfast!"

I'm tough on some things like homework being done and I have gaming time limits from a young age.
Gaming limits were more to get them doing other things first and having a sense of priority.
I'm tough on behaviour. I don't tolerate rudeness, I'm probably a bit shouty.
I think those are the only things im tough on but I think that's kindness too.
I've never punished my kids, am lax about bedtimes, I've always dropped off pe kits and things they've forgotten if I could, I always treat them and take them out.

I think it’s more the case for husbands

I don’t believe half the posters who say LTB (because they’re messy/a bit lazy/once shouted) would actually do it themselves

@ILiveInSalemsLot now, I tried never to make a big deal about homework. I made sure there was time and space for it and a list on the kitchen wall. But I wasn't going to have a fight about it. The school had much more appropriate sanctions than I could apply!