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Original poster

Would the first uni tell my son's prospective employer he was expelled?

75 replies

worriemama · 10/04/2023 17:26

Since graduating high school, my son went to Uni1 but was expelled for not attending classes and not handing in his assignments due to mental health problems -- it was a very academic uni and my son got his confidence knocked/didn't like it but was too proud to admit it before getting expelled.

Since then, his mental health improved and he graduated from uni 2, having spent 2 years in uni 1 and 2 years in uni 2.

Now he has found a job and accepted their job offer. However, he needs to pass background checks. If he uses student services from his first uni to be his reference, will they tell the employer about his expulsion?

He called the screening company and they told them they are only looking for dates-- he needs to account for every year since his high school graduation so he can't hide Uni 1.

Would Uni 1 career service tell his employer he was expelled? On the uni student services webpage, it says

We can on;y provide you with a general reference ie start and end date of your course, the qualification obtained, etc. To obtain this, you will need to contact our Student Services Centre

OP posts:
YellowGreenBlue · 10/04/2023 17:30

Lots of uni students fail some modules and have to leave. It isn't like being "expelled" from school and it wouldn't stop him from getting a job - unless there is more to this story and he did something worse than that (cheating or something)?

Dotcheck · 10/04/2023 17:33

I can’t imagine they’d be allowed to, and I can’t imagine it would be the careers service who would manage the request.
People restart university all the time, and for many reasons. He doesn’t have to bare his soul to any prospective employer- they just want to know that he is who he says he is

Original poster
worriemama · 10/04/2023 17:34

YellowGreenBlue · 10/04/2023 17:30

Lots of uni students fail some modules and have to leave. It isn't like being "expelled" from school and it wouldn't stop him from getting a job - unless there is more to this story and he did something worse than that (cheating or something)?

Yes, it was cheating

OP posts:

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Higher education
Whataretheodds · 10/04/2023 17:36

Why would he need to provide a reference from uni 1 if he can get one from uni 2?

Original poster
worriemama · 10/04/2023 17:37

Whataretheodds · 10/04/2023 17:36

Why would he need to provide a reference from uni 1 if he can get one from uni 2?

because the employer wants all years from his high school graduation to be accounted for:
he spent 2 years at uni 1, then 2 years at uni 1

OP posts:
Whataretheodds · 10/04/2023 17:37

If he's only accounting for dates to the screening service then it sounds as though student services can confirm that?

Original poster
worriemama · 10/04/2023 17:44

that is what he is doing..putting down student services instead of an academic tutor for uni 1

he left on better terms from uni 2 so he will put down a tutor for that

OP posts:
KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 17:51

But is it about references?

It's about accounting for what he was doing. So he puts:

2018-2020: University of Blah, BA Spanish and French. Left after Year 2 because ????
2021-2023: University of Meh, BA Accounting and French. Graduated with a 2 : 1.

What's he saying about why he spent 2 years at the first place and then left? Irrespective of whether he is asking for a reference? Lots of background checking places will verify EVERYTHING, especially for a role involving money or "trust". They could well pick up the phone to the first uni and ask them to confirm dates of attendance even though he hasn't asked them for a reference.

Cheating is going to raise massive red flags, whatever the reasons.

NemoandDoris · 10/04/2023 17:51

The screening firms usually just want to confirm you did what you say you did. For example he did spend them at an uni rather than beach in Australia etc. They do not usually go into details.

grandmaintraining · 10/04/2023 17:53

How did he cheat?

KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 17:53

If they ask your DS the question "Why did you spend 2 years at Uni 1 and then leave" and he lies about that, and is found out, that's his job gone.

Y0URSELF · 10/04/2023 17:55

What kind of cheating ? I thought you said he had Mh problems. Which one is it ?

Original poster
worriemama · 10/04/2023 17:58

Y0URSELF · 10/04/2023 17:55

What kind of cheating ? I thought you said he had Mh problems. Which one is it ?

His MH problems led him to failing classes, which resulted in him using an essay mill

OP posts:
Original poster
worriemama · 10/04/2023 17:58

KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 17:53

If they ask your DS the question "Why did you spend 2 years at Uni 1 and then leave" and he lies about that, and is found out, that's his job gone.

How will his employer find out

OP posts:
Original poster
worriemama · 10/04/2023 17:59

KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 17:51

But is it about references?

It's about accounting for what he was doing. So he puts:

2018-2020: University of Blah, BA Spanish and French. Left after Year 2 because ????
2021-2023: University of Meh, BA Accounting and French. Graduated with a 2 : 1.

What's he saying about why he spent 2 years at the first place and then left? Irrespective of whether he is asking for a reference? Lots of background checking places will verify EVERYTHING, especially for a role involving money or "trust". They could well pick up the phone to the first uni and ask them to confirm dates of attendance even though he hasn't asked them for a reference.

Cheating is going to raise massive red flags, whatever the reasons.

But who would tell his employer he cheated if not him or the uni?

OP posts:
ConkerBonkers · 10/04/2023 18:01

I don't think you need to worry. Why don't you call the uni1 and just ask them what their policy is, or else ask uni1 for a transcript and submit that to the new job people yourself, cutting out the possibility of a poor reference, and also giving them what they ask for, which is just dates.

ConkerBonkers · 10/04/2023 18:03

Sorry reread it. The quote from uni1 has actually already told you that all they will provide is dates, and qualification/ module history details. No need to worry at all.

KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 18:06

Why don't you call the uni1 and just ask them what their policy is,

The DS has to do this, not his mum.

And as for the how would they find out - well they might not. But it depends on the field of study and the field of work. My postgrad is in a fairly niche area. It's less 6 degrees of separation than everyone knowing everyone else and their rough career history. It means that you can't claim experience you haven't got, or qualifications you never completed because someone will notice. It also means you can't gloss over disasters or being chucked off a course for fraud.

All it would take is for someone recognising him as Jack, the one in the year above them who got chucked off the course for cheating.

It depends a lot on the type of job he is applying for - vetting/screening depends on the employer and the role he is undertaking. Some are more thorough than others.

KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 18:08

I'd also advise that he goes back through his FB / Instagram / Twitter and removes any reference to stuff he doesn't want found out. Social media screening is cheap and easy and it will be looked at.

Catshaveiteasy · 10/04/2023 18:11

I thought references had to be fair. Many only confirm you were present between x and y date (which is what is quoted in your post OP). Unless he had done something illegal that requires to be declared, its unlikely they say more than when he was there. It's also not ok to penalise someone for mental health issues in the past.

BartsLongLostBro · 10/04/2023 18:12

I hope he has matured now. Weird you claimed MH to begin with and hid it was cheating.

Original poster
worriemama · 10/04/2023 18:16

KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 18:06

Why don't you call the uni1 and just ask them what their policy is,

The DS has to do this, not his mum.

And as for the how would they find out - well they might not. But it depends on the field of study and the field of work. My postgrad is in a fairly niche area. It's less 6 degrees of separation than everyone knowing everyone else and their rough career history. It means that you can't claim experience you haven't got, or qualifications you never completed because someone will notice. It also means you can't gloss over disasters or being chucked off a course for fraud.

All it would take is for someone recognising him as Jack, the one in the year above them who got chucked off the course for cheating.

It depends a lot on the type of job he is applying for - vetting/screening depends on the employer and the role he is undertaking. Some are more thorough than others.

He didn't tell his uni friends what happened and he is in an international, large industry full of millions of people

OP posts:
KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 18:16

Catshaveiteasy · 10/04/2023 18:11

I thought references had to be fair. Many only confirm you were present between x and y date (which is what is quoted in your post OP). Unless he had done something illegal that requires to be declared, its unlikely they say more than when he was there. It's also not ok to penalise someone for mental health issues in the past.

References have to be factual and objective. It's perfectly legal for an employer to say that someone was sacked for theft, for example. It's not really OK for a former employer to give subjective opinion which could be challenged - for example saying someone wasn't a team player, or too chatty, or a nightmare to work with.

That is why many employers and academic institutions choose to only disclose dates of employment/attendance. If they are asked the direct question "Why did X Person leave?" then they can choose whether they want to disclose that or not. But they are not doing anything wrong by disclosing someone was asked to leave for cheating, any more than they would by giving out their marks.

grandmaintraining · 10/04/2023 18:16

Catshaveiteasy · 10/04/2023 18:11

I thought references had to be fair. Many only confirm you were present between x and y date (which is what is quoted in your post OP). Unless he had done something illegal that requires to be declared, its unlikely they say more than when he was there. It's also not ok to penalise someone for mental health issues in the past.

References only need to be truthful

KnittingNeedles · 10/04/2023 18:18

He'll probably get away with it @worriemama. Unless there are some very dogged screeners.

It's a problem he is going to come up against time and time again as every job move will need him to specify his higher education. So he - and you - better get his story straight.

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