Would the first uni tell my son's prospective employer he was expelled?

[worriemama]

Since graduating high school, my son went to Uni1 but was expelled for not attending classes and not handing in his assignments due to mental health problems -- it was a very academic uni and my son got his confidence knocked/didn't like it but was too proud to admit it before getting expelled.

Since then, his mental health improved and he graduated from uni 2, having spent 2 years in uni 1 and 2 years in uni 2.

Now he has found a job and accepted their job offer. However, he needs to pass background checks. If he uses student services from his first uni to be his reference, will they tell the employer about his expulsion?

He called the screening company and they told them they are only looking for dates-- he needs to account for every year since his high school graduation so he can't hide Uni 1.

Would Uni 1 career service tell his employer he was expelled? On the uni student services webpage, it says

We can on;y provide you with a general reference ie start and end date of your course, the qualification obtained, etc. To obtain this, you will need to contact our Student Services Centre

Your son has passed interview stage and been offered. All the CV screening company will do is check facts. If he has declared university one and two, the screening company will simply check he attended and the dates he has stated are correct. They will not ask for any further details.

He didn’t actually gain anything from the use of the essay mill so I’m guessing it’s a moot point. Yes it’s not ideal but hardly the crime of the year, as he didn’t gain his degree based on an essay he didn’t write.
I think that fact checking about attendance at said university will be done and that will be the end of it.
Glas his mental health is better and hope he gets the job.

Do you think this jobwhich does not involve working with vulnerable people, or in a position of high trust like the police, certain branches of the govt, - will ask Uni1 why he left? Or his fitness for employment?

I don’t think the job HR will ask. It may have come up in interview, but I assume they didn’t ask then.

Op you may not be aware but parts of your posts are very hard to read as they're scored out in the app. I think it's when you use dashes

like this

I would fess up, at least a certain amount. "I had some mental health issues and some growing up to do, and didn't pass the course. Thankfully uni 2 threw me a very welcome lifeline and it gave me the second chance I needed to prove that I could turn things around, grow up a bit, work much harder and ultimately successfully achieve my degree. In fact learning how to come back from failure was probably the most valuable lesson I learned at university".

At what point do you suggest he say all this? His first day of starting the job? And who do you think he should tell?

I suspect that, because you’re talking about high school graduation, you’re in America and, therefore, probably better asking this question on an American website rather than a UK one.

I doubt it, because the OP is using words like uni and not college.

I'd have said it at interview - but now I would say it in an email in terms of explaining why I may get a less than stellar reference from uni 1.

"WRT my uni references. You will have noticed I completed 2 years each at uni 1 and uni 2. I will obtain confirmation from each of my attendance dates. In terms of my uni history,.....(as my post above)."

I suggest you get legal advice as PP are right that the uni will be in the résume forever so this is vital to get right once and for all. Including asking the uni directly. (Sorry, I don’t know anything about this field, all I can advice is do it now and do it well).

Otherwise, as PP he didn’t benefit from it as the credits weren’t passed, luckily it was his first uni, young, he had MH issues, a one-off, and he did good at his second, so if he gets good references from the second, I would doubt it would change the world.

They would definitely wish to know what steps he has taken to improve his MH ( in a politically correct way) if it turns out there’s no avoiding sharing, so I’d think about that also.

After his first job the second will be much more interested in the performance on the first, so it will water down. You just need to be 100% sure you’re on good legal grounds re disclosure or not, or that does have the potential to sink things.

Otherwise, employers know first year students struggle, and if he did well after I’d hope it will be fine. You just really need to be sure of his and the uni disclosure or not rights

best wishes

As the referee is the 'student services centre' it's highly unlikely they'll confirm anything other than what's stated on their official record. Ring them up and ask yourself - anything they can tell the CV company, they can tell you too.

IME anything more detailed (disciplinary hearings, expulsion) is usually with the Academic Registrar's office. The SSC only has access to the transcripts which state dates of entry and modules taken. They'll probably just pull this up on their system and check. But it differs across unis.

Yes something like this is usually the way people go about it (he’s obviously far from the only one who will have struggled, if employers didn’t go for it some might lack candidates now), however he needs to be airtight sure about the non disclosure from anyone, or that just throws everything to hell doesn’t it ?

It’s a bit strange that are asking for references from when he graduated high school. I mean I feel many people wouldn’t be able to remember that far back. Is it not usually the last employer or last 5 years ?

Normal for first graduate level role out of university. These aren't personal references, just to confirm the academic timelines.
Subsequent roles usually omit the time ('since high school') but a fair few still verify the academic credentials if required for the job.

All people can do is guess. If you son wants to know what the uni will say if they are asked why he left needs to call them and verify this.

If your son hasn’t lied on his application he has nothing to worry about.

For safer recruitment, e.g. working in a school, they now want pretty much your entire work history. Once you've got 10 years or so of work history, you can probably leave off things prior to uni- but it's very normal in some sectors and "not being able to remember that far back" would be seen as a red flag.

It sounds like OP's son has only just graduated, as well, so this is all within the last 5 years.

The recruiters will notice two years at uni 1 then two more at uni 2, and it's quite possible they would ask about it at interview. I know I would, not with any ill intent, just wanting to know.

Cheating will not look or sound good. However shot his MH, it marks him out as dishonest. Did he have any diagnosis of MH problems, any doctor involvement? That would help, rather than relying on DS's say so.

They didn't ask at interview
they just assumed it was a gap year or smth
they did not ask at all

It is indeed a UK uni

the interview was done already, this is the post-interview offer accpeted stage

Only because he got caught!

Now companies have started engaging reference checking companies, it can get ridiculous - I've tried to reason with them that the law only requires schools to maintain records until somebody's 25th birthday, but they've been adamant that unless they have confirmation of the exact courses and grades for somebody who left a school 3 miles away that joined another school that has moved twice and then closed and become another school since their last day (some point in the 1970s-early 80s when there weren't computerised records in those schools) that the person concerned will have their job offer withdrawn/employment terminated if it's a retrospective check.

Highly unlikely anyone would know he was expelled for academic misconduct unless he told them himself. That information is confidential and no employee of the university will disclose it to anyone who doesn't have a need to know.

I know the university I work in will not disclose academic misconduct to potential employers but others may have different policies.

There is a lot of nonsense on this thread...

I am a manager and I have interviewed and hired many people over the years, including recent graduates.

I would suggest he only gives the university where he got his degree as a reference. Preferably a specific tutor rather than general admissions as they won't be able to talk about what he was like as a person/student.

End of story.

There is no need to involve the previous university.

As an employer I have no interest in getting two university references that will tell me next to nothing about the individual anyway...

For recent graduates who don't have previous experience we usually ask for one academic reference and a character reference.

If his employer needs two references: has your son had a summer job/voluntary job/internship where someone could act as a second referee?

Is he involved in sports and is there a coach/trainer that can act as a referee?

Is there a church or community leader that can act as a reference for him?

Unless your son is joining MI5 I don't see your employer interrogating every educational institution that your kid has ever attended.

If the job required a higher level of checks (for example if he was to work with vulnerable people) your son would have been asked to do a DBS check.

This just sounds like bog standard reference/date checks and you really don't need to panic because he cheated at an exam when he was 18 or something.

This is not something the university would disclose.

''@ReadersD1gest · Today 20:52
@Jojobees · Today 18:23

He didn’t actually gain anything from the use of the essay mill so I’m guessing it’s a moot point. Yes it’s not ideal but hardly the crime of the year, as he didn’t gain his degree based on an essay he didn’t write.
I think that fact checking about attendance at said university will be done and that will be the end of it.
Glas his mental health is better and hope he gets the job.

Only because he got caught!''

Seriously, get a life...

You really need to be pretty miserable to try to knock down a kid who did something stupid when he was unwell and has now managed to get himself back on track.