Would the first uni tell my son's prospective employer he was expelled?

[worriemama]

Since graduating high school, my son went to Uni1 but was expelled for not attending classes and not handing in his assignments due to mental health problems -- it was a very academic uni and my son got his confidence knocked/didn't like it but was too proud to admit it before getting expelled.

Since then, his mental health improved and he graduated from uni 2, having spent 2 years in uni 1 and 2 years in uni 2.

Now he has found a job and accepted their job offer. However, he needs to pass background checks. If he uses student services from his first uni to be his reference, will they tell the employer about his expulsion?

He called the screening company and they told them they are only looking for dates-- he needs to account for every year since his high school graduation so he can't hide Uni 1.

Would Uni 1 career service tell his employer he was expelled? On the uni student services webpage, it says

We can on;y provide you with a general reference ie start and end date of your course, the qualification obtained, etc. To obtain this, you will need to contact our Student Services Centre

It is very much not a moot point. It is serious academic misconduct and could easily raise questions about where else he has cheated if it came to light.

However, unless he tells them, it is unlikely to come to light. I would be very surprised if career services in uni 1 would have that information.

''@Gymnopedie · Today 20:26
The recruiters will notice two years at uni 1 then two more at uni 2, and it's quite possible they would ask about it at interview. I know I would, not with any ill intent, just wanting to know.

Cheating will not look or sound good. However shot his MH, it marks him out as dishonest. Did he have any diagnosis of MH problems, any doctor involvement? That would help, rather than relying on DS's say so.''

I have been a manager for decades.

It would not even register with me as an issue that someone might have been to two different universities. Because it happens all the time that people switch courses when they realise their 1st choice wasn't working or because of personal/health issues.

Ludicrous as well to suggest this young man should start talking about his mental health and his treatment at an interview/with the employer because that will definitely count against him, considering how much stigma there still is around mental health.

OP does Uni 2 know that he cheated at the first University?

at all the large companies I’ve worked at it’s HR policy, regardless of what individual hiring manager think. besides they have no contact with the candidate anyway until they say they join the team. As graduate scheme hires are done ‘centrally’ with grads farmed out to teams

It's not strictly speaking a reference, it's a background check?

You have TWO threads running on Gransnet OP, but there it is your grandson and a drug related expulsion !?

theres some dodgy info on the gransnet threads.

the uni will absolutely have a record of why he was sent down. GDPR does NOT preclude that.

Drug related . Must have been quite something to be sent down for that.
So much for making a mistake when he was unwell.

Well this is all sorts of confused - both your story and the advice which people are giving. You have variously said that your son/grandson left uni 1 because of not handing in assignments/MH issues/drugs problems - regardless of the reasons you have also said on your other thread that when he interviewed he didn't include the first uni on his CV, so of course he didn't get asked about it - the interviewers didn't know about it!

People here are getting confused between taking up references and the use of a screening company - if your son is going to work in financial services (ref the other thread) it is completely normal for the company to employ a third-party screening service to check qualifications and timelines. He will HAVE to put uni 1 down because otherwise he is going to have a two year gap on his timeline which absolutely will be queried. My husband has worked in senior level financial positions all his life and even discrepancies of a few months will be be picked up, never mind two years. The screening company's job is to ensure that there are no unexplained gaps - during which time your son could have been in prison for all anyone knows! It's not so much about what the uni/employer may say, it's about not having huge gaps in his life.

Would he get caught out by the screening company if he only gives them the transcripts/student services reference instead of the academic one?

Short answer, I don't know. However, it's a week or more since you first posted about this. Surely your son (or grandson or whomever he is) has now submitted his paperwork to the screening company? If they are not satisfied with what has been received, they will come back and ask - and continue to ask until they have received what they need. I really think you need to step back from this and let your son/grandson deal with it honestly. He already has some sort of gap or mis-dating on his CV as he left two years of Uni 1 out when applying and interviewing. Presumably he has now included this in the screening questionnaire. If there are any gaps the company will come back and query that until they are satisfied. I can't stress enough that he needs to be honest, being sent down from a uni is not ideal but trying to lie about it or cover it up is a deal-breaker!

he was diagnosed with cptsd by professionals

and he will be honest to the screening company and explain that he went to Uni X before finishing degree at Uni Y
the interviewers never asked me why he changed uni cos he did not put that on his cv...he only put down the uni he graduated out of

the interviewers never asked me why he changed uni cos he did not put that on his cv...he only put down the uni he graduated out of
They can only ask questions about the facts as presented to them, surely??
Just for clarity, are you actually dealing with the interviewers on his behalf (surely not) or was that a typo?

typo, obvs

he was diagnosed with cptsd by professionals
That's not ultimately why he left uni 1 though is it? He was also a drug user and cheated on exams/assignments which is of far more concern for someone who is hoping to work in financial services. OP, can you just answer whether he has already submitted all the details and timeline requested by the screening company? Because if he hasn't then he needs to get on and do it, without leaving gaps or trying to cover anything up, and if he has already submitted, there is nothing to do but wait and see what happens.

I work in a uni team responsible for investigating academic misconduct. In this situation, the student will have a transcript showing the modules taken and marks obtained whilst they were a registered student. I would expect the transcript to show a mark of 0 for the module where there was cheating, but the transcript would not make any reference to a finding of misconduct.

We advise students that they should declare any disciplinary findings honestly if asked a direct question; we will then confirm the info provided if approached by an employer or screener. If the info is incorrect/inaccurate we will let the employer know this, which will make the matter even worse so I encourage your DC to be honest.

It's quite possible for one student to suffer a whole range of things - MH issues, potentially caused by drugs, stop attending, panic, not submit work and then use essay mills / copy work and submit it.

If they then manage to turn it all around at a second University, they should be given a second chance imo. Otherwise what happens? They can never get a professional job due to one misdemeanour?

They can never get a professional job due to one misdemeanour?

this does happen in some professions.

the fact that the op is still asking about this weeks and weeks later suggests that her grand/son hasn’t yet returned the screening information. That would raise alarm bells where I work.

As this poster said, sometimes one misdemeanour like that can close off doors for life. However, in this instance, it's not even the fact of the misdemeanour, it's that the applicant has deliberately omitted it from his application, and now that the screening company are making their checks, he still seems to be (or at least his mother or grandmother is) trying to fudge the truth. If he had put the first uni on his CV, it could have been dealt with at interview, if it came up as a question. Now he's having to introduce extra information at the screening stage which throws up questions of integrity, vital in a financial services role. I know that when my husband has been screened for finance roles the pre-employment form actually states that answers given will be checked against the CV so hopefully this person hasn't lied about the dates that he attended the second university because it will be flagged up.

he was diagnosed with cptsd by professionals

What's that and how does it affect him?

But if he tells the truth he won't get it at all, so.....

According to your other thread he's just bought a house in London. I guess he's doing ok.

Do you have anything of interest in your life besides your son? You sound like a potential nightmare Mil.

With no job? That's the very definition of doing ok...