Page 3 | The world has gone completely mad

Hobnobswantshernameback · 2023-04-05T16:50:08+00:00

So a Spanish actress has had a baby via a surrogate. The actress is in her late 60s The child was conceived using her dead son's sperm [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65186636 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65186636]] I have no words

MsWho · 05/04/2023 23:36

Spaniard here !
It has been reported all over he news in Spain. She's a well known celebrity and the public was very supportive of her when her son passed away. According to what she said, she's fulfilling her son's wishes: to continue with his charity work, to finish the book he was writing and allegedly, to create the family he couldn't create.
Her son's dad is apparently not happy with the situation at all although it seems she asked for his permission and the baby will have his surname too.
Spanish TV keeps referring to her as the mum/grandma of the baby. Utterly bizarre and disgusting

DiscoBeat · 06/04/2023 00:01

So no mother and no father. That's really sad.

Clymene · 06/04/2023 00:03

HalliwellManor · 05/04/2023 23:03

I am 46 and lost my 22 year old son to Cancer in November 2021,before he started chemo,he was advised to bank his sperm,which he did.He and his girlfriend had just been approved for IVF before he passed away.
If I had the opportunity to have a surrogate have his child then Yes,I would.I would love a grandchild by my deceased son and would raise that child as my grandchild.Just having part of him alive in this world would be amazing and that child would be so loved and cherished by every single member of my family.
As a bereaved mom,I can completely understand why she chose to do this.

I'm really sorry for your loss but that is all kinds of wrong

Wabbly · 06/04/2023 00:10

Hello Spaniard, yes.

A Grandchild (made to order)

Put together with a deceased sons sperm.
And a donor egg.
Incubated in a surrogate woman's body.

A child without a father to guide, love and support her throughout her lifetime ..but crucially a child who is also without any presence of an 'age-appropriate' mother, or a biological mother, throughout her entire lifetime, from the time of her birth.

It's Ana Obregón - the baby's grandmothers age, which perturbs me. Her being the baby girls sole care-giver at age 68 years old.

Ana Obregón is not getting any younger .. as this little girl grows up into adulthood - without both mother and father to love, protect and guide her.

I've read a (translated) lengthy Spanish article which details how Ana Obregón was close with and super-supported by her own mother and father throughout her entire professional and personal lifetime until her mother died last year, and her father dying a few months later.

The death of both of her parents when she was 67 years old left Ana feeling alone, bereft, and grief-stricken.

So at age 68 she pays money to bring a baby into the world .. a baby who has no age-appropriate or living biological parents to turn to when Ana Obregón herself dies sooner rather than later in this child's life.

allthelittlelights · 06/04/2023 00:11

Also in Spain, surrogacy is illegal and I doubt this will be well thought of by most Spanish ppl.

Wabbly · 06/04/2023 00:47

There are three aspects to this which immediately impact my heart and feelings.

The interests and welfare of the baby as paramount.

Since the baby cannot give it's consent to being artificially conceived to be born into this life for the gratification of an older woman - who is neither her mother, nor her age-appropriate parent, nor her age-appropriate care-giver.

The law regarding this. Which in my view needs updating.

Ethics, morality, and values.

Q: The surrogate?

Did the surrogate feel it was morally unproblematic to 'grow' an essentially 'orphaned' (to all intent and purposes) artificially conceived foetus in her womb, into a viable living human baby, for gratification of an older woman age 68 years old?

ItsThePlayBusDingDing · 06/04/2023 01:01

HalliwellManor · 05/04/2023 23:03

I am 46 and lost my 22 year old son to Cancer in November 2021,before he started chemo,he was advised to bank his sperm,which he did.He and his girlfriend had just been approved for IVF before he passed away.
If I had the opportunity to have a surrogate have his child then Yes,I would.I would love a grandchild by my deceased son and would raise that child as my grandchild.Just having part of him alive in this world would be amazing and that child would be so loved and cherished by every single member of my family.
As a bereaved mom,I can completely understand why she chose to do this.

I'm so sorry about your son 💐

However I am also a bereaved parent and I couldn't imagine wanting to bring a child into this world knowing their father has died long before they were even conceived.

Can you imagine the feelings of that kid, they have the pressure of being a legacy to someone they have never met to fulfil the emotional needs of others.

It's absolutely abhorrent and selfish to knowingly put that on a child.

As a bereaved parent I think that poor child was failed before conception, it shouldn't have been allowed.

MsWho · 06/04/2023 01:03

Wabbly · 06/04/2023 00:47

There are three aspects to this which immediately impact my heart and feelings.

The interests and welfare of the baby as paramount.

Since the baby cannot give it's consent to being artificially conceived to be born into this life for the gratification of an older woman - who is neither her mother, nor her age-appropriate parent, nor her age-appropriate care-giver.

The law regarding this. Which in my view needs updating.

Ethics, morality, and values.

Q: The surrogate?

Did the surrogate feel it was morally unproblematic to 'grow' an essentially 'orphaned' (to all intent and purposes) artificially conceived foetus in her womb, into a viable living human baby, for gratification of an older woman age 68 years old?

The surrogate has apparently done this few times before. Ana has paid €170,000 for the whole process and the surrogate has received just €35,000.

Unfortunately it was all done in the US where the rules are notoriously non existent (as long as you can pay for it), with complete disregard of any ethics/moral concerns

CallieQ · 06/04/2023 01:04

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So harsh and judgy

KittyAlfred · 06/04/2023 01:05

Hobnobswantshernameback · 05/04/2023 20:32

My understanding is that this is her child not her grandchild even though biologically it is her grandchild 🤯

In what way is it her child? She didn’t provide the egg, nor did she provide the uterus. Why do you keep saying she’s the mother? I don’t understand.

Dibbydoos · 06/04/2023 01:11

How was that even acceptable, she's genetically mum to her grandchild?

That kid will need mental health support when it finds out....

HirplesWithHaggis · 06/04/2023 01:33

Dibbydoos · 06/04/2023 01:11

How was that even acceptable, she's genetically mum to her grandchild?

That kid will need mental health support when it finds out....

She's not genetically mum to this infant, she's gran. The biological mum is whoever donated/sold the egg.

Many children are raised by their grandparents, including some in my own extended family. But it's far from ideal, and in this case downright wrong. Maybe Ana will live to 95 and be fairly healthy, so this infant will be in her 30's when Ana dies, not a small child or young adult. Maybe Ana will be hit by a bus tomorrow.

But she has created a child, an actual person, who will never know either parent. It wasn't an accident, it was a deliberate choice. And that's not fair on the child.

Avarua2 · 06/04/2023 01:38

Hey lady, just because you can doesn't mean you should

GoldenAye · 06/04/2023 01:56

@KittyAlfred

In what way is it her child? She didn’t provide the egg, nor did she provide the uterus. Why do you keep saying she’s the mother? I don’t understand.

That's a quite clinical way to describe 'motherhood'.

Wabbly · 06/04/2023 02:22

'Maybe Ana will live to 95 and be fairly healthy, so this infant will be in her 30's when Ana dies'

No, the infant will be 27 years old when Ana reaches 95 years of age

Fast forward 27 years from now.

Ana will be 95 years old.

This baby girl will be a 27 year old young woman - looking after the emotional and practical needs of her 95 year-old grandmother.

.. Doing so without any parental support, then, nor in the intervening years between now and the year 2050 - when Ana reaches 95 years old.

It is reported that after the birth of this baby girl, Ana said to the press (quote)

"I will never be alone again."

Might this speak volumes?

A 68 year-old woman who might be unable to soothe and regulate her own emotions? / with her emotional needs unresolved? A woman who has created a new baby human being - whom she might expect to love her, and to look after her needs in her older age?

It's just an (uncomfortable) thought.

Tophy124 · 06/04/2023 02:47

This is vile and it should be illegal to use someone’s sperm after their death unless they explicitly set it out in a will for a PARTNER TO USE under set terms. I still disagree with it tho. No thought for this poor baby at all. This woman is despicable. Of course the surrogate was a low income immigrant living in the US. It’s never an wealthy surrogate is it? This is abuse of women.

user1477391263 · 06/04/2023 02:53

I'm not normally into Mary Harrington's stuff, but the phrase "meat lego" is coming to mind here; an egg from here, some sperm from here, a womb from that lady over there...

I'm not sure this is a great idea. I generally feel surrogacy is not a good idea, other than between lifelong acquaintances/family members and with only medical expenses compensated.

Aweebitpainful · 06/04/2023 03:00

I'm speechless that this was allowed to happen if I'm honest

Natty13 · 06/04/2023 04:08

Tophy124 · 06/04/2023 02:47

This is vile and it should be illegal to use someone’s sperm after their death unless they explicitly set it out in a will for a PARTNER TO USE under set terms. I still disagree with it tho. No thought for this poor baby at all. This woman is despicable. Of course the surrogate was a low income immigrant living in the US. It’s never an wealthy surrogate is it? This is abuse of women.

It is illegal in Spain, the UK and most of the civilised world. The father/son/???brother in this situation froze his sperm in the US because they all knew this wouldnt be allowed anywhere except a country where of you have enough money, you can do whatever you like with human life and a human body. The US farts in the face of medical ethics time and time again.

Weatherwax13 · 06/04/2023 04:58

That poor child. My son died as a young adult and I live with the grief of his absence every single fucking day.
But I'd no more create a baby in this way than I would fly to the moon.
Awful, narcissistic behaviour. Losing a child is the worst thing that can befall a mother and it can drive you to insanity. Doesn't give you the right to try to clone him.

Zippedydoo123 · 06/04/2023 05:13

Disgusting. You would expect this to be illegal. Although the mother must be experiencing immeasurable grief she is only thinking of herself here.

123rainbow · 06/04/2023 05:32

This is vile. How did she even have access to his sperm? Why was it kept?

HettySunshine · 06/04/2023 05:40

Eyerollcentral · 05/04/2023 21:42

Is there no ethical oversight in Spain? Genuinely shocking and disgraceful. Poor child.

The rules in Spain are extremely strict. She went to, you've guessed it... America!

Spain is up in arms apparently.

glowyhighway · 06/04/2023 06:04

Circumferences · 05/04/2023 23:13

For this to happen naturally she'd have had to fuck her own son?

That was my first thought too – incest via surrogate! But no, just had a Google and in surrogacy, usually the surrogate's own eggs are used. So her son's sperm was used to inseminate this surrogate.

So at least that isn't the case. But as if the concept of buying wombs isn't fucked up enough...

Dyslexicwonder · 06/04/2023 06:09

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 05/04/2023 22:03

How is she regarded as this child's mother? She didn't provide the egg and she didn't gestate the child. She has a genetic connection only because the biological father is her deceased son. She's far too old to have become a mother by any natural means. The fertility clinic that made this possible clearly has no ethics at all. None of this is in the baby's interests.

She is the child's adoptive mother. Very selfish behaviour.