Employment and Autism

[YipeeHipee]

Hi - Need some advice please. My son (he's 21) has Autism. He's been working for a retailer for nearly 2 years. He started off doing shelf stacking but he found this very hard and kept dropping things.

So they moved him to a different department and gave him a role that involves working outside. Unfortunately part of my son's Autism is that he likes to talk about his favourite (very specific) subjects. Recently there was a meeting between me (I came along to support him at his managers request) him and the manager.

The manager was concerned because

•He's apparently been coming into the building constantly, talking too much and not working enough. He also supposedly pester's female members of staff but I don't believe this is true

•He snapped at another member of staff when she asked him to go back outside rather than talk to her.

•He isn't doing the job to satisfaction, it's causing customer complaints and putting more pressure on other staff members which the manager says isn't fair

The manager outlined that (in writing) that he must stay outside and carry out his job. He must not come inside unless it's an emergency, breaktime or the end of his shift. Unfortunately my son is struggling with this and today we've been called into another meeting. This time he was given a final warning and told his job is now at serious risk. My son has suggested that he could be moved to another department but the manager says that they don't know where else they could put him that would meet his needs.

Can he be sacked for something that's part of his Autism (constantly talking about his favourite subjects) or would we potentially have a case with a solicitor under the disability discrimination act if they do try to sack him ? Thanks

@Cassimin - I'm sorry, but if a work man feels harassed- and more than one, they don't have to put on their big girl
Pants- they have the right to feel safe in the workplace!!! This store has tried to accommodate him for 2 years- they have clearly really tried!

I think clarification of the “ pestering” needs to be clarified to help him. I would want that for him if allegations are being made. What is he pestering about, is it work issues? It may well be he’s pestering for help or advice. It’s a serious allegation to make and the manager should have clear evidence and details to back it up. Either way helping him to protect himself and talking things through with him to help him understand how things can be misunderstood is hugely important.

Cassimin

You sound like a lovely foster mum. Yy to the being talked at thing. It can be exhausting. 💞

Is he working alone? Is that why he keeps coming inside to talk to people?

From what the poster says the pestering is talking too much, I suppose I must have a high tolerance level as this would not bother me and it certainly wouldn’t make me feel unsafe.
if this would make you feel unsafe/ worried/ threatened then of course you would complain.
Me? I’d just pull up my big girl pants just switch off and get on with my job and jus throw in the occasional comment so he thinks I’m listening.
yes it would get on my nerves, yes I would wish he’d go and bother someone else but I would understand he has a disability and would try to explain to him that what he’s doing is not ok.
as I said we are all different

Also, why have they left this up until just before he had job security to mention? I would ask the manager for an OT assessment and contact ACAS for further advice.

Would you switching to much shorter shifts possibly help him stick to the rules better?

Can the shift leader/someone senior remind him at the start of his shift what the rules are?

Those would be reasonable adjustments.

Is your son interested in learning skills to not engage in any concerning behaviours in the workplace? If he wants to learn to try and adapt in this environment you could seek help privately to look at building skill sets to decrease areas that are causing him problems.

1- addressing the repetitive talk. What replacement behaviours could he do instead? Can he listen to music whilst working or podcasts and keep working? Can he have something on him as a visual cue to remind him about the social expectation? Are there any rules that could be put in place eg supervisor says you can talk about topic for 5 minutes to him/her at x time but all other times it is a topic free zone.

2- does he need more help to recognise social cues when other people are starting to feel uncomfortable? To help him read people if his behaviour makes them feel uncomfortable?

The manager's explanation of pestering is coming in and constantly trying to talk to certain members of female staff. Usually about the same things over and over again. The pestering issue has been raised before but my son always says he doesn't mean to bother anyone.

A manager (not always his) is usually somewhere in the vicinity and will tell him to go back outside if they see him in the building. He apologises (several times) and will then go out. As soon as the manager is out of sight he will come back indoors.

He does usually work alone when outside but he knew this would be the case when they moved him from his original role.

I've tried to talk to him about it, and how he needs to stick to the rules and leave the girls alone but it goes in one ear and out the other..

I fear finding him another job is going to be near impossible but we will try

Please don't minimise the fact that he is making female members of staff uncomfortable.

OP I feel for you and I feel for your son because I can see my own son being similar when he gets older.

However, your son needs to know that in order to keep his job he needs to follow the rules of that job, regardless of having ASD.

Time for a bit of tough love.

Maybe he’s lonely stuck outside alone. Doesn’t sound like a very nurturing place. Think I’d be tempted to get him to leave and find something better.

Oh so you would basically ignore him chucking the odd comment ffs.

So what happens when he doesn’t get the response that he needs and so he comes right into your face or tries to force you to face him?

Im not saying this is OPs son, although women have had to tell him to go away.

Why do you keep blathering on about big girl pants, even if yours cover your eyes and ears, they are not going to stop someone invading your personal space.

Oh op I really feel for you, you’re getting lots of good advice on here.
maybe some of the other managers just don’t get that it’s in one ear and out the other.
what we’ve found a help is doing lists requiring him to do each task separately.
go and get ready doesn’t work in this house!
its
1-go upstairs
2-brush teeth
3-wash hands and face…etc
I know this is teaching granny to suck eggs to you but most people don’t understand and think if they ask someone to to something they know what to do, in which order to do it and that they will complete the task until the end.
A team meeting without your son present could be a good idea so everyone around him is aware of his difficulties and the best way that they can support him.

The manager's explanation of pestering is coming in and constantly trying to talk to certain members of female staff. Usually about the same things over and over again. The pestering issue has been raised before but my son always says he doesn't mean to bother anyone.

Again, why do you not believe it's true?

Unless all the other staff are female then I would say this young man IS being a problem as it seems he is only bothering female members of staff.
I appreciate there are reasons (his autism) for that but he is a man and probably bigger and stronger than the people he is making feel uncomfortable so whatever the cause the result is the same.
Also women are generally conditioned not to cause a fuss when harassed by men so it may be quite bad for them to have raised it.
If he keeps being told to do something but “forgets” then perhaps this workplace isn’t right for him, he really needs to be able to follow simple instructions to keep him and everyone around him safe,
I feel for you OP, you must have been so pleased he got this job but it sounds that despite his workplace trying it’s just not right for him. The fact you go straight to trying to take legal action is a bit crappy to be hones

@YipeeHipee Im sure your son does not want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, if he struggles with social cues he will not understand that he is the cause of someone’s discomfort and therefore doesn’t really understand what he is apologising for. And so the pattern repeats.

I think you should contact the organisations others have mentioned but ultimately your son can be dismissed if all reasonable adjustments have failed to enable him to do his job. The employer will need to show what they have done but ultimately he has a job to do and if he can’t do it without constant intervention or supervision then they can dismiss him.

Would a buddy system work, on rotation perhaps?

Why do you keep blathering on about big girl pants, even if yours cover your eyes and ears, they are not going to stop someone invading your personal space.

because I like blathering.
your opinion and my opinion of someone invading personal space are obviously 2 different things
i said I would support him by telling him what he is doing is not ok

@Cassimin you brought up the 'big girl pants' phrase. Saying that women just should accept being harassed and 'get on with it'??

As someone who is autistic having your son as a colleague would drive me insane. I go to work to do my job not spend all day taking to someone who will come across as work shy. How would you feel if you had a colleague who spent all day chatting to others rather than getting on with their job? What would you expect your managers to do about this?

If he doesn’t want to do the work he’s paid for it’s time for your son to move on. If he spends his days desperate for social interaction is he lonely? Does he need to join some clubs, try in-line dating etc

Exactly @Cassimin your idea is different to someone else’s, we all have our own safe proximity. Saying others should pull their big girl pants up is so dismissive and unhelpful, just like throwing the odd word to make someone think you are listening is.

We have no idea how intense OP’s son is, or how threatening, even if unintentional. Living with, knowing or understanding a person does not negate the needs of others working with that person.

regarding pestering women this is similar to my cousin who is Autistic when he was working on a large pick your own farm and shop. He would follow the women employees more taking to them & asking endless questions as they were more receptive to cousin talking often about the same things. Some of the women did not mind, some could not tolerate him at all. There was a couple of older male employees who he would also chat to. He now works as a programmer as he completed courses online during lockdown, he has a large online community that he chats to

@Cassimin and what would you do when you kept supporting him by telling him what he was doing was not ok and he kept repeatedly doing it?

Remembering this is an employment situation and his employers are supporting him by repeatedly telling him that what he is doing is not ok. And he keeps repeatedly doing it.

Agree with this.

Pestering = constantly talking about their appearance, asking them out, overstepping personal boundaries. Not going way when asked or stopping when told he's overstepped personal boundaries. Needs stopping NOW and he needs professional help.

Pestering = monologuing about his special interests to someone who happens to be of female sex as much as those of male sex and doesn't read the social clues that it isn't wanted. Not great but that's not illegal and I do agree that sometimes people are too quick to use semantics to claim a situation is worse than it is.

After many decades working with teens there is definitely a huge shift from telling someone to sod off if they are annoying you to claiming someone is pestering you purely because they audacity to approach you and ask you about the weather or something equally inane!

I blame technology and people texting too much!

Agree @itsgettingweird however op has said its the same female employees he's 'pestering' so doesn't sound like he's doing it indiscriminately to anyone one?

OP clarified the pestering. And said the employers have addressed it before but her son keeps doing it. He's supposed to be outside working, keeps coming in and talking to people when they're trying to work, often talking about the same topics. Is told by a manager to go back outside and work and as soon as the managers back is turned, he goes back inside to start up again.