How do you manage life with young kids who are early risers?

[TheStuffalo]

We have two DC - DS 4 and DD 20 months. I work part time 4 days a week and DH works full time. I have Fridays with the kids.

I just feel like we are constantly struggling and nothing feels easy or fun. The kids wake between 4-5am. DH and I try to get to bed at 9:30pm but it's not always possible with chores/tidying.

we have a cleaner once a week but the house is a constant tip with stuff everywhere. It's nice for about an hour after the cleaner has gone but once the kids come home it's like the cleaner wasn't even here. We get the kids to "tidy" their toys away every evening but even then it just feels like such a jumble with clothes everywhere.

This winter we have all been constantly sick. It started with a bad bout of flu before Christmas and I have had six viruses since January and I can't remember the last time I felt normal. It was like this last year as Jan - May was a write off. I went for blood tests but everything was normal.

sleep is shit. DH and I try and alternate mornings so one of us can have a lie in but the kids always hunt me down. I haven't had a proper lie in since before DS was born.

we've become crap parents. Most mornings and evenings after they come back from childcare is in front of the tv. We do take them out on weekends when we aren't sick but recently it hasn't been much and a lot of the time we stay at home. We do try and take turns taking the kids out to give each other a rest but it never feels enough. We do try and take turns going out in the evening as well but I'm so knackered I don't want to. DH and I haven't had a date night since before DD was born.

There are pockets of joy but it's such hard work and DH and I never have time for ourselves. DS is quite active, strong willed and emotional which makes everything feel harder and means I experience a full range of extreme emotions all before 7am. He's a joyful little soul but the defiance and anger and shouting and crying all feels too much for me sometimes.

the lack of sleep is taking a massive toll on me mentally and physically and also on my work. The constant volley of emotions is also taking its toll. I feel like if the kids slept in until 6am it would make such a positive difference. Try as I might I've not been able to change their sleeping patterns.

how does everyone with early risers cope? How do people deal with the early wake ups? I know people say it gets better but it just feels never ending and I feel miserable right now.

Have you tried a gro clock?

I don't think the issue is early rising. It's kids in general. I have one, 16 months old, I work full time as does my DH, and I could have written your post. The fact that you're coping with two DC means you're already doing a fantastic job. Have a glass of wine and give yourself a pat on the back!

Your 4yo should be staying in bed and quiet until a reasonable time even if not asleep. They are old enough to have a Gro-clock or digital clock and to know they don't make a peep until it shows a 6 or 7. That won't solve everything, but I would work systematically on pushing back your 20mo's wake time by reducing and pushing forward naps. Do you have any money to throw at a sleep consultant?

I could have written this OP and we only have one!! We have very recently had some success with a gro clock for our 20 month old….. I was very sceptical but he’d gone from half 5 to a half 4 wake up and I thought we’ve got to do something. Set it for 6, went and laid down on the floor with him first few mornings telling him it wasn’t time to get up yet as he did get upset. Fast forward a week a he’s sleeping till 6 and we’re starting to push it by 5 mins every few days. Really hope I’m not jinxing it here but so far it’s working!! Hope you get something sorted!

This probably isn't what you want to read but everything you've written sounds very much like normal parenthood. I also have 2 children (a bit older than yours), I work, as does DH. Our house is a tip a lot of the time but we also have an amazing cleaner. What I would say is you're doing the hard yards now. It won't be long before the kids play together and because of that you'll have a bit more freedom.
Don't worry about tv, they need a rest too after nursery all day.
Sleep will come. So will warmer weather with fewer bugs / illnesses.

Get a grow clock or similar, this will set the boundary and give them an end time 'we stay in our bed quietly until the sun comes up on the clock' then stay consistent, even when it's breaking you and it feels like it's never going to work. You treat any time before 6am as you would the middle of the night. If they get up before then, you return them to bed. No interaction, no attention, nothing to occupy them. Dull and boring. Eventually they will get bored of getting up early and will start sleeping later.
Bedtime needs to be no later than 7pm, sleep begets sleep. Daytime naps kept to a max of 1hr 30 and not after 3pm for the little one, nothing for the eldest.
Lots of exercise and fresh air in the day, even if your ill. Just let them waking, running playing. Soft play, park etc.
This has got my early riser from 4:30 to 6:45. It took a couple of months but it was so worth it.

@Redlorryyellowlorryblue and @ShiverOfSharks we tried the gro clock with the 4yo but it didn't work. He's very strong willed and would just get out of bed and fiddle with the gro clock buttons until the sun came on. I have long suspected some type of neurodiversity with him but I'm also not sure as I've been told it's just his personality and it's typical behaviour.

The 20 month old wakes at 4am and we try and keep her quiet to keep the 4 yo asleep. Sometimes it works but mostly it doesn't and he gets up half an hour later and joins us. I might try the gro clock with her to see if she takes to it.

we tried the sleep consultant with DS and it didn't work despite sticking very rigidly to the plan.

thanks @BananaPalm once I get over this current virus I'll be cracking open a bottle 🍷

Wow 4am wake up is rough. That sucks OP. PP mentioned a gro clock which is a good idea, or some similar approach

Who is waking that early? If it's the 4 year old and they are in their own room it's time to start training them to stay in their room until a time you are happy with. You can leave a simple breakfast in a packed lunch box for them in their room: little carton of milk, banana, yoghurt, jam sandwich or whatever with a little ice pack in it to keep it fresh til morning. That can tide them over until it's time to have breakfast with everyone else. They need to learn that the rest of the house doesn't get up just because they do and they can have their packed breakfast and play in their room until 6am, say.

A 4 year old should enjoy this. Make it fun, set up a little picnic blanket and teddy bears with a tea set and they can have a little picnic in their room and play until it's time to get up, i.e., when the gro clock shows the yellow sun. I would even be happy to allow them a tablet in this instance. Something locked down with no internet access and programmes preloaded on to it. They can amuse themselves for a couple of hours.

If it's the 20 month old you could try putting them back to bed. With my 18 month old, anything before 5:30 is treated as nighttime. He's too young for the gro clock but was pushing his wake time earlier and earlier. A few mornings of putting him back to bed every time he got up and he's now got the message. He wakes somewhere between 5:30 and 6 and I accept that.

Does your 20 month old still nap? If so, on your days with them could you have a routine of quiet time during their nap where the 4 year old watches a movie and you have a doze with them on the couch?

You also need to speak to your husband about the children coming to find you on your days for a lie in. That's not on and not fair. We live in a tiny flat and my husband manages to keep our toddler away from me when I need a lie in. If he can't keep them entertained at home he needs to get them up and out after breakfast for a walk to the park and leave you in peace.

I've just seen your update that it's the 20 month old waking early and waking your older child.

Do you think if your toddler slept later then your older child would too?

Any way to rejig naps and see if that helps?

Can you schedule a nap for you into the day?

@maryberryslayers @Pinkplasticbathcup that's encouraging re the gro clock. I wonder if it might work on the little one. We got her a vtech soother night light which acts as a "sleep trainer" but it's rubbish.

@Getthefiregoing that breakfast sounds fun and might actually work although DS tends to get up after DD. I feel like if DD woke up later he would too.

just realised she's not 20 months but 22 or maybe 23 months now. I can't count anymore I'm that knackered 😴

We had alternative lie in's at the weekend. The kids and I would watch cbeebies together with a cuppa and I would doze on the sofa. It wasn't unusual to go to the park early. It was a case of simply surviving.

Interestingly our eldest could reset the gro clock to get the sun up, he is very bright and and awaiting assessment for asd.

We would dream about a lie in for years!!!!

Mine were similar but I don't sleep much, so it was probably easier to cope. DH worked long hours and I childminded full time so life was pretty full on and it was really, really hard at times. One of my best coping skills was loading the slowcooker most mornings at 6am and having 'oven food (pizza, chips, fishfingers etc) once or twice a week on non slowcooker days.

Firstly, it will get easier so in the worst times I used the mantra 'this too will pass' in my head. Once your 4 year old is in preschool on Fridays you'll be able to nap when the baby does, which might help a bit and things should get easier from then.

Secondly, you need some sleep and you both need to prioritise that over absolutely everything else apart from the kids' safety and basic care. If that means living on takeaways or ready meals or frozen chips/other oven food for a couple of weeks and/or leaving chores for a few evenings and going to sleep when the kids do, then do that. Chores will be much much easier in the morning when you've had a decent sleep. Plus, if you're awake anyway you may as well tidy up, do laundry etc at those times. The kids can 'help', watch TV or play whilst you're busy--whatever works for you.

In the long term, I'd adjust my active day to coincide with the kids awake times (chores in the morning), so when they're asleep you can either sleep or chill with your OH and enjoy each other's company, or even socialise with friends.

we've become crap parents. Most mornings and evenings after they come back from childcare is in front of the tv. We do take them out on weekends when we aren't sick but recently it hasn't been much and a lot of the time we stay at hom

I can't comment on getting them to sleep, I've given up getting mine past 5.30 but I'm a single parent so I do know about being tired. And I think being a 'good' parent is an active decision (I'm sure you're excellent parents, you know what I mean). It's like going to the gym, you can't be arsed at the time but you know you'll feel better if you do.

Some things that have helped me is setting up something for the morning. Nothing Instagram worthy but just having something out ready to do. Mine likes toy parade (I line all the little plastic figures you accumulate up on coloured tape), magic painting and finding her teddies having a picnic. I just chuck something on the rug for when we go downstairs basically. Sometimes it keeps the TV off for 5 minutes. Sometimes it keeps it off completely. Same thing for after nursery.

Same with getting out the house on the weekend. Noone likes getting their shoes on and its a faff and the weather's crap. I tell myself we'll just walk round the block for some air, and we always stay out longer.

Being tired is rubbish, but being tired and feeling guilty is worse (speaking from experience!)

I have a 15 year old DS.... when he was little he was a total nightmare early riser. I remember the gro clock did really help with the bribe of a few of chocolate buttons if he stayed in his bed to the allotted time. I worked full time too so it was exhausting! We were the parents shivering in the park on our own at some ridiculously early time as he'd already been up for hours by 8.30 and we needed to get out of the house! His saving grace was that he went to sleep bang on 7pm every night and had a decent nap during the day so at weekends I also slept at nap time and went to bed early in the evenings.

Fast forward to now it is all a distant memory and I have a typical teenager who needs dragging out of bed in the mornings and my lie ins have been re established (for a number of years now!). It's bloody awful at the time but it will pass and you just sort of survive it.

Try the gro clock, bribe with chocolate buttons (for all the pearl clutchers my DS is slim, fit and his teeth filling free!!) and keep reminding yourself it won't be forever!

I relate to everything you've said. And I don't think there's any fix or solution, it's just the reality of having small children.

@TheStuffalo Just to mention we turned the ‘night time’ light off on the gro clock as its blue light and we didn’t want that on all night with him!

My now 16 year old was awful for this. Watching various Far East Grand Prix live was a familiar feature. It's no comfort to tell you that you are a superhero with two. A gro-clock is an idea although it didn't really work for us.
All I can suggest is find a way to adjust your own body clock to get as much sleep as you can in order to face it. Which is no help. You have a hug from me.

@TheStuffalo my now 4yo did the same thing with us when he was 2yo. But we just use it as an aid to let him know when it is ok to wake us up, if he stays in bed until he's supposed to, so it doesn't seem endless and impossible to him. The dull, boring and back to bed is the main part. If he messes with it just reset it and tell him to get back in to bed, and repeat.
My DS stopped doing it after a couple of months as he realised it would get him nowhere.

Lots to f praise, happy fun morning when they do stay in bed.

If getting up is fun, they get breakfast, attention, possibly some TV or screen time, of course they are going to get up! They will rouse slightly from a sleep cycle, realise there's better things to do and wake up. Take away anything remotely worth getting up for until 6 and they will start to think, no point, back to sleep! Then it becomes habit.

If your son is waking you at 4/5am I wouldn’t continue with it. Surely you wouldn’t allow him to wake you and begin ‘shouting and screaming’ at 2am? Or 3am? Treat it the exact same. Just boring and quiet ‘it’s still nighttime’ and escorted back to bed and ignored. As many times as it takes. It’s ridiculous, waking the whole family at 4am can’t be allowed to just continue because he is ‘emotional.’

And even if he doesn’t sleep no playing/breakfast/anything until an appropriate time of the morning. I would wonder if much of his tantrumming is maybe down to being tired since he’s up at 4 in the morning.

With the toddler it’s a bit more difficult but basically the same thing - react the same as you would if she woke at 2am. Lie down, shush shush, night night etc.

Ugh, the last solid 8+ hours of sleep I had was the night before DS2 was born, when I'd been in latent labour for days and the midwives gave me some lovely lovely opiate pain relief. DS2 is almost a year old now and DS1 is 3.

To be honest, if one or the other of them wakes between about 3am and 6am I just bring them into our bed and they usually sleep a bit more then. We have a king size.

Toys everywhere - I've started rotating their toys so about 1/4 of the stuff they own is out at any one time, and the rest is stored in our attic. It helps them play better as they're not so distracted and it's way easier to tidy.

But yeah I'm mainly waiting for the day they can go downstairs in the morning and get themselves fed and changed and put the telly on et independently. Feels like ages away.

Grow clock didn't work here by we used a yoto as bedtime and wakeup time - basically set to red and goes green when it's getting up time. Seemed to 'get' green go red stop alot easier than grow lock which yes got fiddled with until he made the sun rise 😂

Things we do/did:

Have only one child (I know you can't change that but hopefully others who are considering a second will read this - it's a hard slog and you're doubling everything)

We let our son whinge a little in his cot. We don't get him out until 6am. At times he ends up playing with his teddy or falls back asleep

DH and I go to bed at 7pm. Asleep by 8pm. Means we naturally wake up at 4am and have some time to ourselves

Dinner/tea by 6pm. If we don't have time to cook we just eat whatever. Yesterday it was just cheese and crackers (and cold meats) followed by ice cream

We don't watch tv or Netflix in the evenings - i just go to sleep. Anything after 8pm is sleep time.

Prioritise sleep over everything. Over Tv/making nice dinner/reading/having a glass of wine with DH. Once you are rested you can handle everything much better.