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Original poster

Death sentences

350 replies

usernamechanged1 · 30/03/2023 20:14

Saw on another thread a couple of “he should hang” type comments in respect to a man who has been convicted of murder. The victim was 9 (Olivia Pratt-Korbel).

I expect it’ll be a resounding no, but does anyone genuinely feel that there should be a death option for certain crimes?

Or are these throwaway comments people tend to make in response to particularly shocking/heinous crimes?

OP posts:
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5
FrillyGoatFluff · 30/03/2023 23:54

Don't believe in death penalty, but agree with whole life terms, and would have one prison allocated to those with whole life terms. No rehabilitation, no education opportunities, no niceties - wang them all in there together and best of luck to them. Food delivered remotely, no visitation options, minimal guard interaction. Fuck it, survival of the fittest.

You do the crime, you pay the price.

(I will caveat by saying I have no understanding of this, but it does irritate me supremely)

TomPinch · 30/03/2023 23:59

To those arguing that it's better to kill people than lock them up as the former is cheaper:

Leaving aside the complete callousness of that argument, well, actually, rehabilitation is even cheaper. See, for example, the Scandinavian countries.

Hippy nonsense makes for good economic sense, it seems.

Weallgottachangesometime · 31/03/2023 00:01

TomPinch · 30/03/2023 23:59

To those arguing that it's better to kill people than lock them up as the former is cheaper:

Leaving aside the complete callousness of that argument, well, actually, rehabilitation is even cheaper. See, for example, the Scandinavian countries.

Hippy nonsense makes for good economic sense, it seems.

would it even be cheaper. I wouldn’t have thought the legal process that surrounds it would end up costing insane amounts, like in America where they sit on death row for years due to appeals and then changes in law.

eloquent · 31/03/2023 00:04

I am vehemently against the death penalty.

I wouldn't want to be on a jury for this, and as previous poster stated, who does the execution?

The death penalty actually costs the tax payer more in the long run than a prison sentence.

Wrongful conviction is also a huge issue.

Sentencing needs looking at, but absolutely no to death penalty.

TomPinch · 31/03/2023 00:28

Weallgottachangesometime · 31/03/2023 00:01

would it even be cheaper. I wouldn’t have thought the legal process that surrounds it would end up costing insane amounts, like in America where they sit on death row for years due to appeals and then changes in law.

Show quote history

Yes - it costs a lot to lock people (and to investigate and prosecute them) so a criminal justice system geared towards prevention and rehabilitation is much, much cheaper: lower prison populations, less crime, fewer social problems caused by crime and by locking people up.

English-speaking countries' prison musters have increased to a high level since the 1990s: probably due to bad influences from the United States.

Northernsouloldies · 31/03/2023 00:54

I don't agree with a death penalty for two reasons, miscarriage of justice and the quick exit factor. If say a minimum 30yr tariff was passed. Wouldn't it be purgatory not to be able to indulge in life's pleasures even the simple one's. A walk on a beach, a nice meal of your choice, being able to go where you want and therein is the real punishment. Prisons are not holiday camps they are a dirty, stressful dangerous environment again that's the punishment for committing a heinous crime.

Skipitea · 31/03/2023 02:00

Mycathatesmecuddling · 30/03/2023 20:39

So essentially you feel capable of killing people without remorse if you knew there was no chance of it impacting you legally? Interesting take

Show quote history

Yes, I would.

Some crimes deserve the death penalty.
Someone has to do it. I would flick the switch on the likes of Huntley, Brady etc and not feel a single bit bad about it. Absolutely.

Toddlerteaplease · 31/03/2023 02:10

No, it's the east way out. He will have a rough time in prison.

Toddlerteaplease · 31/03/2023 02:10

And it serves him right.

MissingMoominMamma · 31/03/2023 02:14

Whilst I would love to see people like him erased from our society, that would make another person a killer.

SinnerBoy · 31/03/2023 02:15

SunshineGeorgie · Yesterday 20:29

And who would your executioner be?

Most likely somebody who enjoyed it.

People have mentioned Pierpoint and said that he enjoyed it. If you read his memoir, he said that he took pride in doing it as quickly and humanely as possible, so that the prisoner suffered as little as possible.

He didn't say he enjoyed killing them. He said it was a necessary evil and that it was his job to carry out the sentence without cruelty.

He had apprentices, who he sacked, because they botched it, or enjoyed it. He also said that he hanged people he was certain were innocent, but that if he hadn't done it, they could very well have been executed by an enthusiastic amateur, or a sadist.

Nightlystroll · 31/03/2023 02:20

I don't have any problem with people dying for their crimes. If someone murdered a member of my family, I'd want them to die. In fact, I'd kill them myself. I don't care if people think it's not civilised.

However, despite that, I oppose the death penalty. Not for the oft stated reason that all murder is wrong. In my mind the two things are completely different, but because:

  1. Miscarriages of justice happen and no one can come back from the death penalty.
  2. It makes it harder to convict peoole when the penalty is so harsh.
MyopicBunny · 31/03/2023 02:29

No because I don't want my children to grow up in a country which has state-sanctioned murder.

SinnerBoy · 31/03/2023 02:30

How many miscarriages of justice would it take to convince people that the death penalty is not a good idea?

People have mentioned "science." The science existed at the time to exonerate Stefan Kiszco, but bent police withheld the evidence and he spent 17 years in prison being brutalised daily.

He had the mental age of a 6 or 7 year old and ended up believing that he'd killed a little girl, but forgotten about it.

MyopicBunny · 31/03/2023 02:32

. If someone murdered a member of my family, I'd want them to die.

So would I. But that's why, in a civilised society the victims of a crime don't decide what the punishment is.

Northernsouloldies · 31/03/2023 02:34

SinnerBoy · 31/03/2023 02:30

How many miscarriages of justice would it take to convince people that the death penalty is not a good idea?

People have mentioned "science." The science existed at the time to exonerate Stefan Kiszco, but bent police withheld the evidence and he spent 17 years in prison being brutalised daily.

He had the mental age of a 6 or 7 year old and ended up believing that he'd killed a little girl, but forgotten about it.

A very good point. For me the hang em high brigade seem hell bent on vengeance not justice.

SinnerBoy · 31/03/2023 02:43

I completely understand the wish to kill someone who has murdered a close relative, I'm sure I'd feel the same. But then again, how could I be sure, completely sure?

TomPinch · 31/03/2023 02:44

SinnerBoy · 31/03/2023 02:15

SunshineGeorgie · Yesterday 20:29

And who would your executioner be?

Most likely somebody who enjoyed it.

People have mentioned Pierpoint and said that he enjoyed it. If you read his memoir, he said that he took pride in doing it as quickly and humanely as possible, so that the prisoner suffered as little as possible.

He didn't say he enjoyed killing them. He said it was a necessary evil and that it was his job to carry out the sentence without cruelty.

He had apprentices, who he sacked, because they botched it, or enjoyed it. He also said that he hanged people he was certain were innocent, but that if he hadn't done it, they could very well have been executed by an enthusiastic amateur, or a sadist.

But that means Pierrepoint's actions were only justifiable on the basis that if he didn't do it, someone else would do it and not as well.

We all have to put faith in the system, to some extent, in some way, but that really is an extreme. Sometimes that's just not a good enough reason.

I acknowledge that your post is a rebuttal of the suggestion that executioners either kill for pleasure, or become utterly traumatised, and my comment above addresses a different point but I also understand that he was a very private man, even by the standards of the time, and would have kept many of his feelings to himself. Didn't he end up opposed to capital punishment?

Kinneddar · 31/03/2023 02:46

I wouldn't agree with it but I think we need more full life sentences. Life should mean life

TomPinch · 31/03/2023 02:46

Skipitea · 31/03/2023 02:00

Yes, I would.

Some crimes deserve the death penalty.
Someone has to do it. I would flick the switch on the likes of Huntley, Brady etc and not feel a single bit bad about it. Absolutely.

Show quote history

Either what you say is untrue or you're just the sort of person Pierrepoint would have sacked!

SinnerBoy · 31/03/2023 02:49

Tom

We all have to put faith in the system, to some extent, in some way, but that really is an extreme. Sometimes that's just not a good enough...

He did end up opposed, but accepted that it was part of the justice system. He also knew it was no deterrent, on the ground that if it were, he wouldn't have been necessary.

Nightlystroll · 31/03/2023 02:49

MyopicBunny · 31/03/2023 02:32

. If someone murdered a member of my family, I'd want them to die.

So would I. But that's why, in a civilised society the victims of a crime don't decide what the punishment is.

As I said, I don't want the death penalty in this country.

Nightlystroll · 31/03/2023 02:50

SinnerBoy · 31/03/2023 02:43

I completely understand the wish to kill someone who has murdered a close relative, I'm sure I'd feel the same. But then again, how could I be sure, completely sure?

If you saw it with your own eyes for example?

Pubesofsoberness · 31/03/2023 02:52

Wasn't Stefan Kiszco convicted in the 70s? You wouldn't get away with half the stuff they did to get a conviction these days

I don't think I agree with the death penalty. Life in prison should be a thing though

TomPinch · 31/03/2023 02:52

Nightlystroll · 31/03/2023 02:50

If you saw it with your own eyes for example?

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It wouldn't be your place regardless. Societies where people take justice into their own hands are pretty violent.

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