Out of complete nosinesses, how much do teachers get paid?

[tikkakormaandsomerice]

So primary teachers
Secondary school teachers

What would they roughly get paid?

I think those who decide teachers ‘real’ pay is more because of the holidays are thinking about the comparison with other industries and the private sector in the wrong way.

Teaching is, essentially, a compressed hours job - so very high hours for a shorter number of weeks per year. We do not say that the ‘real’ pay of an offshore worker on 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off is actually double their pay packet. Nor do we say that the ‘real’ wage of someone who works 3x 12 hour shifts to make a 36 hour week is actually 5/3 of their pay packet. They are just different shift patterns to earn a particular annual wage. Teachers work all the hours the job requires in term times - about 50-60 hours is the norm in my experience in primary - and this is balanced out by the reduced hours during school holidays.

The pension is, tbh, largely irrelevant in a role where almost nobody in my decade plus of experience actually gets to pension age in the profession and a large proportion leave in their 20s / early 30s. Again, it can possibly best be interpreted ad a higher rate of pension accumulation to compensate for the fact that the job of a modern primary class teacher cannot be done up to pension age.

@cantkeepawayforever

That's fair enough.

But teachers can't then claim that they aren't paid for their holidays or that they never get any.

An off shore worker wouldn't say they're never off shore or they aren't paid while off shore

we can argue about pay until the cows come home, as I said, I spent years on below minumum wage per hour
But there is no security, so I don't know where you are getting that from, and holidays are unpaid, but frequently worked, my kids spent much of their school holidays sitting in the corner of my class room while I worked, throughout their childhood, and even if we didn't go in during the school day, I still had hours to do in the evenings after they were asleep

I also don't know any primary school teacher working those hours but I dont live in England

What a surprise, @Botw1 , no response to the point I made about teacher pay being propped up by second incomes. It's like you didn't ask the question in good faith and thought it was some sort of gotcha.

@Nimbostratus100

The thread is about pay.

Not sure what else you want yo argue about.

It's secure where I am. Its practically impossible to get rid of a teacher here

I got up to M4 or 5 (can't remember) and my monthly take home after tax, pension, student loan etc was £1900. I was leader of two subjects (History and Geography) and had no other responsibilities (other than the insane ones as a class teacher). We basically moved up the pay scale automatically each year but you did have to prove it. I didn't move up one year because I was on maternity leave. I worked for 5 years as a primary teacher.

its never impossible to get rid of a teacher, or multiple teachers

In the current climate it is probable that those teacher could get another job, if they can travel, and if they find one where life is worth living.

Other aspects apart from pay are coming up on the thread, and pay per hour is about pay, and plenty of teachers are working for under the minimum wage per hour of takehome pay, so very relevant

I’m not surprised you don’t live in England. The difficulty is that many of those hours are ‘invisible’ - worked by a mainly female workforce, often at home, in the gaps between other things. Teachers who are parents often eg leave school a bit earlier but then work long into the evening at home, or mark in the car while a child us at an evening activity, or plan for half a day at least at the weekend.

I do agree that the specific conditions of teaching in England are unusual and perhaps particularly problematic, and I’ sure that you’ll understand that your experience elsewhere is not necessarily valid in the contemporary English context.

@noblegiraffe

A gotcha of what?

I'm doing more than 1 thing at once so skipped some of your post. And quite a few more.

Women not being the higher earner and working part time is a societal problem, not a teaching 1.

It's because society wants women to be the primary care givers/home makers.

We teach girls to choose professions where that will facilitate that and boys not to.

If female teachers wanted or needed to work full time for the money, they could

What's the split between male and female teachers working full time?

The only public sector workers whose pay I see discussed as frequently in the MSM and on social media as that of teachers is that of health care professionals, which many people rightly consider to be too low. But the pay of civil servants, the armed services, the police, employees of other publicly sectors, not so much.
And on Mumsnet there are frequent posts about teachers’ pay, often with a disingenuous OP posing a question that could easily be answered with a quick Google. I wonder why?

more female classroom teachers

more male managers

On the ‘unlaid holiday’ thing vs other compressed hours working patterns that’s in many ways down to contract semantics.

Whether a teacher’s contract says ‘paid for term time plus x weeks holiday, other holiday time unpaid’ or a rig worker’s contract says ‘annual pay for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and holidays’, the effect is exactly the same. Someone doing that job for that year earns that annual salary for that working pattern. The mistake is to state, as some gave done upthread, that the ‘actual’ salary is much higher because the working pattern ‘could’ be constant over the year.

A gotcha of what?

You pointed out that I did not mention pay in reasons for leaving or staying, implying that teacher pay isn't a problem.

I was pointing out that it not being a consideration for me doesn't mean that teacher pay isn't a problem.

@Nimbostratus100

So more men working fulltime meaning the issue, as always is a sexist 1.

@borntobequiet

Healthcare workers from doctors down are frequently told they are very well paid and should be grateful they have a job at all. Oh and that they're all shit at their jobs any way.

So its completely untrue to say teachers are the only 1s discussed but it certainly ties in with the theme that some teachers present

An offshore worker probably doesnt log in to a forum to find regular posts about how s/he only works part time/ has 25 weeks holiday and feel they have to defend themselves.

They might well have family members or friends that say that though, and I hope they defend themselves.

@noblegiraffe

Oh right.

No.

Not a gotcha. But im sure it's true for most.

Don't most surveys show that teachers leave because of workload stress?

No comment on the sexist nature of work life balance?

Or was that supposed to be your gotcha?

Your comment is quite garbled, Botw, can you clarify?

Society tends to undervalue - and underpay - sectors where the workforce is primarily female, even where that work us of immense societal importance: care, teaching, nursing. Squabbling between these sectors, rather than questioning whether society us judging these sectors appropriately against those dominated by men, is not productive.

I dont think there is much "squabbling". Most NHS workers support the teachers, and most teachers support the NHS workers.

WE are both being treated badly

I agree, I cant really follow what you are saying @Botw1

Sorry, was replying to Botw. I agree that in general the sectors are fairly mutually supportive, though outsiders sometimes choose to pit one against the other.

@saraclara

No one has said 25 weeks holidays

Always best to stick to the facts.