Out of complete nosinesses, how much do teachers get paid?

[tikkakormaandsomerice]

So primary teachers
Secondary school teachers

What would they roughly get paid?

@Nimbostratus100 If you move from one local authority to another you will lose your continuous service unless there is an agreement in place between the LAs, which is rare.

Please give me the names of the many academies who do not give sick pay. You can PM me if you aren't in a position to name them publicly.

I know this isn't the main salary of a teacher, but I did think the arrangements to pay for post covid catch up lessons illustrated some of the issues with teacher's pay quite well

Headline rate £40 per hour for a catch up lesson for 4-6 pupils

Actual situations

you needed to plan the lesson and submit plans to management ( 45 mins- 1 hour, depending on revisions, discussions, etc)

You needed to make resources and set up classroom (45 mins - 1 hour, and also very likely that you have to buy some of this out of your own money - my school has run out of paper for photocopying, for example)

You have to take in an assessment, and mark and grade it, record progress, ring every parent and discuss their childs progress with them (1 hour min) AND you may have to make these phone calls from home, and submit a claim for the cost, including downloading your phone bill, highlighting and identifying each phone call, and submitting with paper work -at one stage during the pandemic my school owed me £300 in phone calls, and made me spend a whole day doing paperwork to claim it

You have to clear away after ( 15 mins)

so you see, it very quickly becomes less then the minimum wage, then of course you are taxed, then of course, on top of this, not one iota of this work van be done during a time you are already paid, so not between 8-4, all outside of that.

So the headline rate is nothing like what the teacher actually gets, if you take into account all the extra time required, and resources the teacher will provide for themselves, and of course, two other points

firstly, working like this is not particularly effective, compared to say, two students popping up after school and asking you to explain a particular question to them there and then, in 15 minutes, with no paperwork involved

secondly - the teachers employed to do this catch up work did not have to be subject specialists, or even qualified teachers

so while the pay sounds good, and the offer to students sounds good, the whole thing is an ineffective beaurocratic nightmare which became the despair of teachers bullied or cajoled into doing it

Then you come onto mumsnet, and find parents complaining that teachers couldnt be bothered to do it

Because on average teachers get paid a lot more than the average UK worker, with the opportunity to earn more than double that quite easily (when equivalised for holiday and pension), yet are one of the most vocal group of workers in the country about being low paid. I don’t think scrutiny of that position is unwarranted, particularly when it’s taxpayers money which is required to fund increases.

Everyone keeps telling teachers how great they have it, but for some reason that's not working as a tool to get teachers into the profession or to stay in it.

Maybe a different tactic is needed, given the actual facts.

That's simply untrue. Please cite some sources.

It is true, and I am not giving sources, so believe me, or dont believe me, I dont care.

@noblegiraffe

Are you leaving?

What would make you go back/stay?

I am a teacher. I have two working sons. I am currently off sick. I did have some sick pay initially, but am now on benefits.

Both my sons, with BScs, walked into graduate jobs and were earning more than me in their first week, than I am earning as classroom teacher after 30 years, with a BSc, and MSc and a PGCE.

Both have looked at my contract and my terms and conditions and told me I am a total mug, and no one in their right sense would ever consider the public sector.

They have hugely better pay, benefits, pension, insurance, ( both have private health insurance through their companies)

To be frank, I do feel like a mug, having given my working life to state education, particularly when considering the cost to family life in the long long hours I have worked, in some schools over 100 hours a week, with working through the night a weekly occurrence

If I had my time again, I wouldnt do it

Not leaving, but can't say I haven't thought about it.

Two reasons I've not left:

1. I'm part time which makes the workload manageable. I could 100% not teach full time and I don't know how those that do manage it

2. The closest I came to leaving was a few years ago when my school had a Paul Dix-style behaviour policy and behaviour was absolutely appalling because of it. That, thankfully, changed to a stricter policy with centralised sanctions and behaviour has improved.

I suspect a bit of a boiling frog scenario though. My DH who has a normal job often comments on how ridiculous the expectations of mine are.

Because on average teachers get paid a lot more than the average UK worker

Are you comparing with non graduate professions too?

Perhaps have a look at Noble's graph.

But anyway that doesn't answer my question as to why people want this granular detail on teachers. It's like you want them to provide pay slips.

I'm assuming you will encourage your own children into teaching? Because of the pension.

@ThanksItHasPockets is correct. You lose your continuous service when you move from one local authority to another. I moved from an LA school in Lewisham to an LA school in Warwickshire and had to build up my entitlement to enhanced maternity pay from zero. I checked very carefully as I was planning a second child. I think you've misunderstood that academies aren't unique in this respect.

that is exactly what I said! If you stay within the same LA, you expect your service to be counted as continuous.

If an academy says it follows the burgundy book, including continuous service calculations, then it doesn't, that is what I am talking about

@noblegiraffe

Neither of those reasons are about pay

@Piggywaspushed

They did answer your question

Its state funded. Public sector pay will always be scrutinised because we all pay for it.

And yeah. I would encourage my kids to go in to teaching.

It's well paid, secure, has good benefits and lots of holidays

That's good news for future recruitment .

Public sector pay will always be scrutinised

My point is it isn't. I haven't seen anything like the same scrutiny of the pay of other public sector workers.

They have hugely better pensions

Utter rubbish. Exactly what pension scheme are your sons in and what are their employer contributions?

No, and perhaps you'll notice that I'm part time which means that I am probably not the main earner.

Which puts me in an incredibly fortunate position.

There are many people (particularly support staff and TAs) who can only continue to afford to work in schools because of being propped up by a second earner.

Perhaps that is why the workforce is so female dominated.

I agree. I’d encourage them to get some life experience first, travel a bit, work in other jobs, try different roles, then come into teaching as I think that a bit of life experience is beneficial and helps people to better evaluate the pros and cons of their positions. But yes absolutely, I’d support it.

Ffs find me a family where that’s not the case?? You think the rest of the world lives happily with no stress working 9-5 on 2 x £100k salaries?

I think you’ve misread Noble’s graph 😂

No, I haven't. It's wage growth. But it makes an important , very important point about ow tecaher pay is simply not keeping pace.

My point is that there are MNers who seem to think that teachers , with degrees and PG qualifications would be content with UK average pay which is under extreme processes of erosion compared with other sectors - graduate or otherwise.

Might not have been clear but the 'see Noble's graph' was a separate point from the question I asked the PP about how she was making her comparisons.

Why these frequent comparisons with the average UK worker, when the comparison should be with the average worker with postgraduate qualifications?
Could it possibly be attempting to muddy the waters? Surely not.

Oh, and teachers are taxpayers too. And children in schools are the children of taxpayers.

OK, so we've established that teachers have two perks :

pensions (so not a thing until post working age)
holiday time (age old MN argument not worth rehashing

Oh, and three , security. In current climate increasingly untrue. Four redundancies at my school last year.

What else?

You're obviously not paying attention then