Out of complete nosinesses, how much do teachers get paid?

[tikkakormaandsomerice]

So primary teachers
Secondary school teachers

What would they roughly get paid?

Why does it matter if the situation is not unique to teachers? I’m a teacher and I know other professions are in awful positions too, I stand with them.

No public sector workers are treated or paid fairly, this is not a new problem and is a result of many, many years of underfunding. What a mess we are in.

@MistressIggi

Yup.

I don't know why this has turned into a nurses vs teachers tread. I have two daughters. A teacher and a nurse. Their jobs are both really hard and stressful, but in different ways. The teacher can never switch off from work and it's hard to drag her way from it at the weeknds, but the nurse works stupidly long shifts which as a ward sister she often can't leave on time because staff shortages mean no-one arrives to take over. 15 hours isn't unusual for her, but she only does three days of it a week and can switch off in between.
Both are struggling in underfunded sectors and get grief from the people and families they're trying to help.

They both envy elements of each other's jobs, and are relieved that they don't have other elements of the other's jobs.

It's not a competition. Both jobs are tough and involve a high level of responsibility.

It is what the majority do because band 5s are entry level nursing roles without that much clinical responsibility. You are able to work clinically at a band 6 too, but you will need 12 months behind you as a band 5. Being a band 6 doesn’t take you off the wards and your prior experience at band 5 is very much valued. I have remained friends with many of my cohort and literally not one of them is a band 5 currently. The majority are happy to remain on band 6 either because they want to remain working clinically or just don’t want the added responsibility.

https://www.pulsejobs.com/news/how-to-transition-from-a-band-5-to-a-band-6-nurse/

You clearly feel aggrieved in comparison to teachers for some bizarre reason.

@saraclara

Completely agree which is why I find it distasteful when a nurse asks a teacher to justify their wage in comparison to theirs.

@JulianCasa

Just an observation

I think its part of the reason teachers don't always come across that well.

'No public sector workers are treated or paid fairly, this is not a new problem and is a result of many, many years of underfunding. What a mess we are in.'

True

@Botw1

Teachers don’t have the angel factor no. Personally I’m glad about this, as I used to find it quite irritating when people presumed I was some sort of higher being for being a nurse.

I do love teaching health and social care. For me, it was a good balance. I get to utilise my presentation skills, whilst encouraging young people to still go into professions like nursing, social work etc. Do I need to justify my wage for educating the next cohort of nurses? No.

It's not distasteful to compare wages

It's the only way we can justify what a job role is worth

We dont live in a communist society.

Job roles are valued based on skill, education, supply and demand and comparable roles

Comparable ps roles should be paid the same.

I think some teachers feel very defensive because we get a bad rap. I do think part of it is the media portrayal of teaches which is really unfair, compared to NHS workers.

Like during covid. I know not every school was the same but all the schools I know of in the local area inc my own and any friends’ schools were all in work throughout covid, without any ppa or distancing etc. But we got so much crap in the media and from the govt as though we were skiving. We didn’t get any praise for keeping going for the children who needed us in lockdown which was really sad considering we put ourselves at risk so much. I’m not saying we should’ve been clapped etc as there’s no WAY we were working as hard as NHS, but we got so much shit in the media. Why not just leave us alone? Instead of calling us lazy, work shy etc. And we really do work bloody hard for not very much.

I know other jobs do too but I don’t think they get the same slandering in the media, on public forums and on social media as teachers do.

In fact, as I’m typing this, the Tories have been very clever in pitting the public against teachers; they make us out to be moaners with militant unions, when actually we’re just fighting to be able to afford to do the job that we love, and do it properly, for the children we care so deeply about.

@JulianCasa

Have you read any threads recently about GPs? Or the nurse or doctors strikes?

The comments are the exact same. Nurses are lazy abd greedy. Doctors are lazy and greedy. Why can't they see more pts etc

And the praise for the nhs during the pandemic vanished very quickly.

Service as normal (abuse and demands) resumed very quickly.

So, no. Its not unique to teaching

But I do appreciate that most teachers care about doing their jobs well and the kids

Yesterday evening, on Mumsnet active threads there were at least half a dozen about school concerns/something a teacher had done etc. It's understandable, this is a forum for mums and most have children at school that they worry about.
But of course threads on any subject about schools can end up involving misinformation or a lack of understanding about what can be done about an issue. So teachers respond, and over time and hundreds of threads like that, it gives the impression that 'teachers are always moaning'.

If there were as many threads about nurses, or vets, or dentists, or lawyers (and there were as many MNers in those professions to respond) teachers wouldn't stand out so much.

It's the nature of MN and the number of teachers compared to other occupations that skews the impression.

But there isn’t a huge difference in their pay though lol. I mean my payslips from now and back from when I was a nurse? Erm, nothing too significant 🤦‍♀️. Im certainly not jetting off to the Bahamas anytime soon from any surplus I’ve made from switching careers 😂.

Anyway you were the one who asked a teacher first and foremost to justify their wage in comparison to yours. Like I said, distasteful.

@Easterfunbun

No I didn't

I'm not a band 5 nurse for a start

I was told to justify teachers being worse paid than other ps roles. My point was, they're not.

So Botw with no skin in the game, this tedious arguing is just a weird hobby for you?

That depends on a school, lots of schools require you to undertake extra responsibilities on ups.

@noblegiraffe

Yup.

I mean, I know you're a teacher but no one is forcing you to argue back

If its tedious, go and find something better to do.

Ok I’ll add you to my list of people not worth engaging with. I’m not here for your entertainment.

@noblegiraffe

If you're not here for entertainment what are you here for?

This isn't a teacher support group. It's a discussion forum for mums (by name)

If you only want to engage with people you agree with why post at all? How boring is that?!

And I do have skin in the game, although its not a requirement for me to join a discussion.

I'm a tax payers and I have kids at school. How public money is spent is everyone's business. And public sector wages take up a huge proportion of public money

So ill keep commenting and you can keep singing lalala with your fingers in your ears with a child who doesn't want to hear stuff they don't like

I’m not here for your entertainment. You said this was a hobby for you.

@noblegiraffe

You're being a tad over dramatic

I presume than anyone commenting on this forum is doing so because they want to. And that in these kinds of discussions (especially when someone comes armed with multiple graphs and links!) that they enjoy the back and forth

If that's not the case then as you so rightly say, don't engage

But don't act like you're being strong armed into an activity or discussion against your will

It is probably a professional vice that when teachers see or hear a misconception, they tend to want to correct it - that is, after all, a huge element of their job. It’s also possibly the case that the whole ‘being corrected by a teacher’ thing brings out the worst kind of teenager in us all, so the tone of the to and fro of these interactions can get quite fractious and unedifying.

If all teachers left the incorrect assertions on this thread and elsewhere to stand unchallenged, then there is a risk that readers would assume the misinformation is true. There are only too many examples where posting something online has led to it being accepted as ‘the truth’, sometimes with damaging consequences.

If, on the other hand, we challenge them, we are seen as ‘always moaning’.

@Botw1

Oh dear, did you get corrected at school? 🤦‍♀️. Having kids doesn’t mean you know everything about the education system, neither does attending school. It is in peoples interests to listen to teachers though if they actually care about their children’s education. Might help to put your ego aside a bit for that though. Teachers are an educated bunch, who will stand up for themselves and yes, challenge misconceptions. Sorry not sorry if that offends you.

@Easterfunbun

And clearly saying you work in health and social care education doesn't mean you know anything about nursing.

@cantkeepawayforever

Teachers are welcome to challenge any misconceptions.

They are not welcome to pretend that the challenges of high work loads or low pay or negative perception is unique to teaching

Good you can admit teachers can come across as patronising though

Can you quote any teacher who has said that the challenges are unique to teaching? I have seen many teachers speaking from their own experiences of teaching - and some not in teaching but with knowledge of both it and other roles commenting on their own experience . There are obvious reasons why teachers talking about their own life experiences talk about teaching …

Can you find an example of where a teacher who says these experiences are unique, rather than simply being their own?