Out of complete nosinesses, how much do teachers get paid?

[tikkakormaandsomerice]

So primary teachers
Secondary school teachers

What would they roughly get paid?

It definitely was. My sister in law was threatened with a fine when she took a temporary teaching post after she had her children, and somehow the LA payroll department didn't organise her pension payments. She was oblivious, then at the end of the two term contact, got a really aggressive letter from the TPS demanding all due contributions and threatening her with a fine. Fortunately she's used some of her pay for savings, so was able to pay, but if she'd spent it all I don't know what would have happened..

I was doing supply at that time, and obversely, wasn't allowed to pay into my teachers pension. You had to have a contract to enroll. That has definitely changed.

It's really not enough.

o, I didn't know that, I just know quite a lot of teachers who opt out of the pension to pay childcare costs

@noblegiraffe

I didnt say anything about 'progressive pay'.

I'll ask you to justify why classroom teachers are worth 10k a year more than band 5 nurses.

Go for it

Well, they aren’t, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a pay rise. It means nurses deserve more pay to bring them in line with teachers.

I am only speaking for myself, but it is not the hours that I work that I find hardest (though I work too much, often to midnight, and it has a bad impact on my family life) it's the stress of the hours I'm working at school. I've worked in other jobs. An hour at work in an office (the ones I worked in, not speaking for everyone) simply didn't take the same toll on me that an hour teaching 30 teenagers does.
I'm about done.

I'm a band 6. But I'll bite.
I get 9 weeks AL in the NHS. My OH gets 4 more weeks in comparison.
He works 60 hour weeks, plus a minimum of 1 day each week of the holidays (MINIMUM!!).
So that is 2470 hours per year. At an hourly rate of £12.85. And he is m3.
Plus nurses and NHS staff get unsocial hours payments. So actually NHS staff can earn more than a comparable teacher by working these hours.
Adding 10k to his wage would give him an hourly rate of £16.90.
I think that seems quite reasonable. I'm rushing on the school run, but I'll run some more figures later.

@Overthebow

They are in Scotland, which is what you want teachers pay to be.

And in England there's about 7 to 10 k of a difference at the top of the scale

'It means nurses deserve more pay to bring them in line with teachers'

Exactly my point.

@noblegiraffe so going by the stats teachers work around 5 hours more per week then equivalent graduates, and then get the holidays so are effectively working compressed hours. So we agree that teachers work around the same hours as other similar graduates.

Taking hours worked out of it then, as it’s similar to others, what would be a suitable salary? I think the string salary and the salary for 5-7 years experience is pretty good when you take into account the generous pension, especially when you compare to similar graduates (those that don’t require a masters as teaching doesn’t, but even some of those that do). But when you get to 10-15 years experience it’s not so good. Perhaps the pay for more experienced teachers should be raised more.

I dont agree that teachers work similar hours to other graduates, for most of my career I have worked significantly more. Some teachers may work less.

Well your example of 100+ hours per week is very extreme, others on this thread have said around 50-55 hours, plus a bit of time in the holidays, which correlates with the experience of my friends who are teachers.

Most graduate jobs have to work more than contracted hours, so averaging out the hours and holidays works out to roughly similar.

Why do I need to justify it? Nurses are taking their own industrial action over pay and they have my support.

I don’t spend hours on the internet digging into their contacts and trying to tell them that they deserve crap pay or that they don’t work the hours that they claim to do, what kind of loser would do that? I believe them when they say their working conditions are poor and their pay inadequate.

@Botw1

Oh please. Most nurses don’t remain at band 5. It’s fine if they want too of course but a lot will progress to band 6 fairly quickly and band 7 posts are there for the taking if you wish. I know this as my sisters are both nurses and I worked clinically before going into teach health and social care.

I think you’ll also find that in nursing your experience is very much valued. You don’t need to justify your band 6/7 post over and over again. Sure you have clinical practice to keep up to date with but you’re not getting pushed out because you’re too expensive.

It is a bit silly really comparing nursing to teaching, neither is more superior than the other. Personally I’ve done both and nursing for me was a much more sustainable career choice, however I do enjoy teaching. Even amongst all the bullshit.

@noblegiraffe

You certainly seem to spend hours on the Internet getting defensive about teachers pay.

When I said I don't think its justifiable that teachers are paid more than other, similar, public sector roles you automatically jumped to the defense that teachers were worse off (with a weird graph that doesn't make much sense)

If you want to argue that teachers should be paid even more than they are now, then yeah. You do have to justify why they should continue to be paid more.

The unrealistic and unreasonable working hours should be tackled first.

There needs to be more consistency and adherence to a standard.

Teachers in Scotland report on average they work 46.5 hours a week. Term time.

They aren't underpaid

@Easterfunbun

Sorry, are you trying to say the majority of nurses are band 6 and above and that a band 6 is easy to get?

Isn't that like saying most teachers could be a head of dept if they wanted more money?

@Botw1

Not really no. Much less HOD positions. I only have to go onto my local NHS jobs site, and it is brimming with band 6/7 nurse positions. It’s not like that in teaching. Sure, we need more teachers but leadership positions aren’t really ten a penny. Like I said, I don’t really need to Pitt the two professions together.

I think nurses have a lot of scope for progression for pay should they want it. I also know from experience that that is valued and they don’t suddenly become a threat to a hospital because they’ve attained the dizzy heights of a band 7 or even 8. There is a level respect there for modern matrons that a HOD wouldn’t necessarily get.

I can only speak from my experience of doing both professions and nursing was easier and more sustainable. The shifts couid be brutal but once you left the ward, you were done for the day. I work longer hours in teaching.

You certainly seem to spend hours on the Internet getting defensive about teachers pay.

I’m a teacher. What’s your excuse for the time you’ve spent arguing on this?

If you want to argue that teachers should be paid even more than they are now, then yeah. You do have to justify why they should continue to be paid more.

Because we can’t recruit or retain teachers for the current pay offered.

If you’re happy with kids not having teachers, then 🤷‍♀️

Iirc, Botw is not in England, so if they do have children, their education is not at the same risk as those suffering from the teacher recruitment and retention crisis in England’s schools.

@Botw1 So we should keep getting paid the same, no matter what inflation is doing, how much utilities increase by, whatever happens with the cost of living - no one should ever ask for a pay rise when inflation means you are being paid less in real terms that the year before?
I don't believe you really think that.

@cantkeepawayforever

Good to know. Ridiculous really as I do believe nurses should be paid more. Always has to be a race to the bottom.

@Easterfunbun

Most nurses arent band 6, even if you think there are lots of band 6 and 7 posts. There aren't (comparetively)

It's an odd argument to make really.

I cant comment on the respect thing. Although it doesn't seem to bevthe case locally. Our schools aren't trying to do away with hod or above

@noblegiraffe

Lol. It's my day off. If I wasn't replying who would you be getting all annoyed at?

The theme appears to be that unless everyone agrees that all teachers are incredibly over worked through no choice of their own and that they are massively underpaid then there's no point commenting

I think some teachers have it worse than others for sure. Lots needs to be done about the unnecessary workload some teachers face. Much more funding is required for education as a whole and especially sen and behavior issues

Do I think teachers are underpaid? No.

And given that most teachers say they are leaving or want to leave because of the workload then I think addressing that should be tackled first before raising pay again.

Although I do think the Scottish pay award is about right

But only if other ps get the same

@cantkeepawayforever

I'm not in England, no.

The op didn't specify we could only discuss English teachers pay?

@Easterfunbun

I've specifically said nurses pay should be increased to match teachers, not teachers decreased to match nurses

So no race to the bottom

@MistressIggi

Sorry, not sure where you got that from?

@Botw1

No it’s not an odd argument to make at all. You’re the one asking teachers to “justify” their salaries against band 5 nurses when the pay is very much comparable anyway to newly qualified teachers. I know a lot of nurses and most only stay at band 5 for a year or two before progressing to band 6. That is totally normal in nursing. You get the odd outlier who wants to remain at band 5 which is fair enough, but they are still very much valued on that ward, unlike a lot of teachers nationally. Just stop.

@Easterfunbun

You stop lol

I honestly can't believe you're trying to argue that hospitals have the odd outlier band 5

😂

Start of Band 5 is 27k
A newly qualified teacher starts at 28k, hardly a significant difference. Both vastly underpaid.

Please stop with your pedantics.