Out of complete nosinesses, how much do teachers get paid?

[tikkakormaandsomerice]

So primary teachers
Secondary school teachers

What would they roughly get paid?

How’s d*

What are you on about?

Who has said that about housing costs? Please do quote them here…

coat of living in Scotland on average is 1.26 times cheaper than the coverage cost of living in England… not sure what’s funny about that fact being mentioned? 🙄

As I already said back on page 3 or something... my teacher DP can not afford to join the pension as he doesn't earn enough for the cost to simply live. He is 37. Qualified at 33. Will never get whatever this gold played pension some of you think all teachers get. There's plenty like him out there who can't afford the pension. Even if he can afford to join in a couple of years, he will not get vast amounts when he retires. That's if he even makes it to retirement age.

@MrsHerculePoirot

Page 11

Scottish teachers are going to get 38k to 45 is that right?

How much more than that would you want? 1.5 x?

Would you support other public sector roles rising in comparison?

It was compulsory to pay into the teacher's pension throughout my career. Has that changed recently?

I couldn't have told you what I paid in pension contributions because it was deducted at source. i looked at my net pay and that was pretty much it.

No idea if it changed. But you can opt out. You are automatically enrolled but can opt out. You now get automatic enrollment 3 yearly but can still opt out afterwards.
I'm nhs and opted out in 2007. I'm in it now, but only a few years in. Can't afford 2x pensions. The NHS one is better than the teachers IIRC.

You can definitely opt out in Scotland.
With hindsight, I would tell anyone doing so to give up almost anything else before their pension contributions.

We don't smoke, don't drink, smallish mortgage. My car is paid off. His car is a shitheap 2007 suzuki ignis that desperately needs replacing. We do not have a life of luxury.
However, I have 3 children, one with a disability and one at uni. He has one child that he pays maintenance for plus the cost of maintaining contact and making sure she has everything she needs when with us - this means that there is nothing to give up. We don't even have a TV licence.
There is absolutely nothing that can give 🤦‍♀️.

Thanks. I knew that the pension had changed, and my teacher daughter's is different from (and less good than) mine. But I didn't realise that opting out was an option.

I’m a teacher in a primary SEN school in Scotland my pay is 45,300 this year (after the rise we have just, next month I will be earning 47,565. I am top of the scale unpromoted. The pay rise we’ve just had equates to an extra £11 per day before tax. I think 47K seems a lot and it a good wage but when you break it down it’s £27 an hour (that’s the supply rate) for educating a max of 33 children for 5 hours a day and all the work that goes into that. Considering what day a plumber charges.

Other myths is our holidays - we sacrifice a part of our salary per month to give us a July wage, we don’t actually get loads of paid holidays per year. I’m very lucky as I leave school at around 4pm and only do 1-2 hours per night and about 2-3 hours at the weekend. However, it’s very hard to switch off, also we are terribly under funded and I spend a fair bit of my own money on resources and things for my class and pupils.

Theres also an awful lot of violence both on SEN and in schools in general.

Loads of pointless arguing on this thread.

As has been pointed out several times now, regardless of what ransoms on MN think the salary is not sufficient to attract or keep teachers in the job. Once upon a time, teachers would accept a lower salary than comparably-educated professions because of the longer holidays. This is no longer a sufficient carrot.

If even the government, who couldn't seem to give a toss about education standards,are concerned about teacher recruitment, then there must be an issue. They don't need a task force to work out the reasons though. The working conditions are too rubbish for the salary. They either create a better working environment or they pay teachers enough to make them think it's worth doing. Both these things would require them to stump up some money though so I can't see things improving for a while.

My DC have suffered their entire education under the waste of space Tories. For the eldest, by the time we can hope for any change it will be too late.

This graph shows that teachers are working 3 hours more per week than other similar graduates, but only for 39 weeks a year, so they work fewer hours than normal graduates. Which is fine, and a perk of being a teacher, but do stop moaning about the "crazy" hours.

I think teachers should get paid significantly more than they do, btw. I just think many teachers are clueless about how hard other people actually work.

I think teachers should get paid significantly more than they do, btw. I just think many teachers are clueless about how hard other people actually work

So what? And by the way, by what species of magical thinking do you know what many teachers are thinking? This thread about teachers' pay and conditions so start your own thread about others worthy of consideration.

If it underestimates teachers working hours how do you know it doesn’t under estimate others too? It doesn’t sound very reliable data to use. I would also like to know what ‘similar graduates’ mean?

And what happened to teachers not saying they work more than others? Your post says just that.

Oh dear… either you have quite the issue with comprehension or you are being wilfully obtuse. The poster has not said it’s ‘only’ teachers and police anywhere in that post…. Just like I haven’t asked, or implied anywhere, I’d expect 1.5 x Scottish payscales.

I haven’t asked for 1.5 x teacher salary. I quite clearly said at least bring it in line with Scotland. And then you didn’t seem to understand the cost of living comparison.

Let me just say one more time as your posts imply that you finding it hard to comprehend what is being said.

I think teachers in England should get paid the at least the same as Scotland. If the it offer was the same as Scotland and if it was funded as it is in Scotland I think teachers would take that offer.

Similar graduates means people who graduated with the same/similar degrees but not go into teaching.

I would accept that if they’ve underestimated our hours they may have done others. Except there is evidence that teacher hours are more as per the DfE survey/reports themselves though so they have definitely underestimated teacher ones.

If it underestimates teachers working hours how do you know it doesn’t under estimate others too?

It may well do. But do I think it disproportionately underestimates 'similar graduate' weekly working hours to the point where similar graduates are working the same or more hours in a working week than teachers? No. And why not? Because teachers who quit teaching for other jobs report 'getting their life back' and 'not missing the teacher holidays because they don't need them as much'.

It is well-documented that there is a workload problem in teaching. It's the most widely reported reason for leaving. There have been repeated government initiatives to bring it down. In fact just this morning comes the news of a leaked document that the DfE have been sitting on, reporting on just how many hours teachers are working. https://schoolsweek.co.uk/school-workload-crisis-exposed-in-leaked-dfe-report/

It says "Senior leaders’ average week dropped from 60.5 hours in 2016 to 55.1 in 2019 but now stands at 56.8. Two in five leaders work more 60 hours a week.
Nearly one in five teachers worked at least 60 hours a week – most spent less than half of that teaching."

As part of the strike negotiations the government (who hate teachers) committed to a "Taskforce" that would attempt to reduce teacher workload by 5 hours a week(!)

All of which leads me to the point I was making that the poster prattling on about teachers earning £55k equivalent because of the holidays needs to recalculate because teachers are effectively working condensed hours.

lots of teachers do have a masters. In my department, 3 masters, 2 doctorates, and all have PGCEs. This is not unusual - but as others have said, it does not affect pay

in fact, those are just the masters I happen to know, it doesn't really come up in conversation much, there may well be others

I dont think it has ever been compulsory, and a lot of teachers cant afford it

@MrsHerculePoirot

The post clearly states the thing I find shocking about teachers wages and thats what teachers are complaining about. (Cost of living v stagnating wages) as though it only applies to them and not the majority. Its a common theme

And you did say you wanted more than Scotland. Because its more expensive (by 1.5 x) in England. I just asked how much more you wanted.

You didn't answer if you'd support other roles having the same increase?

As it is teachers are better paid than a lot of public sector roles which I find hard to justify.

So you need to justify why teachers should be paid progressively relatively less and less than other public sector roles, during a recruitment and retention crisis.

Go for it.

@noblegiraffe

What hours are the majority of teachers working then if 1 in 5 are working 60 term time?

Teachers workloads and contracts absolutely need reviewed as do SEN funding and behavior policies.

But tbh I don't think 50 hours a week for 39 weeks for 39 k is that bad of a deal.

I think people outside of teaching, and some people inside of teaching are clueless about how hard some teachers work. It does depend on the school, and you can get trapped in a terrible school and find it hard to move on. Less hard now there is such a critical teacher shortage, but even so, you need the time and energy to do it, job applications take hours that you might just not have.

My worst situation was as a single mother in a school that demanded 100+ hours per week, and working straight through the night once or twice a week was inevitable. We were ordered in on weekends, and during August, and the school set up and paid for a rudimentary creche, it wasn't great. I was there 7 years. For the students, this was a good school, and I am proud of what I helped them achieve there- but for staff it was awful - and still is, I still know people trapped there because of the conditions of their residency, etc.

My next worst was a school I worked at had shorted hours, but more done on site, so most staff were there 6am to 7pm every day, 8pm when the school opening hours were extended. My children were at uni by then - and there were NO other mothers on the staff. When one joined the staff, they would resign within weeks. Again, it was a good school for the students, but gruelling for the staff, very high turn over - I was there 4 years, and was the longest serving classroom teacher when I left.

My current school is nothing like this, hours are more reasonable, and manageable, plus I am part time, so have a proper work life balance - staff still work many hours over evenings weekends and holidays though, and all after school activities are expected, but unpaid.

All 3 are very good schools, so people can take pride in what they help students achieve. That is what keeps people there - I have worked in terrible schools where anarchy reigns, and nothing you do is ever worth you turning up in the morning for - shorter hours maybe, but a pointless life.