Out of complete nosinesses, how much do teachers get paid?

[tikkakormaandsomerice]

So primary teachers
Secondary school teachers

What would they roughly get paid?

For goodness sake. I didn't say teachers get 25 weeks holiday! I said that many oil rig workers are off the rig for 25 weeks a year, but no-one considers them 'one holiday' or part time. Several MN posters have claimed that teachers to be part time because they get 13-weeks away from the school building.

Also these days unless you have a masters or further qualifications your pay will always be substandard!
most teachers I know are married to lawyers/those in financial sector to subsidise their pay. Otherwise a couple of teachers or those who are both in say 40k are always going to struggle in London!

ON holiday, even

@noblegiraffe

Sorry.

I've no idea what you are finding difficult to understand or find garbled about that post. I honestly don't know how else it could be worded?

You said I was trying to gotcha you. I wasn't.

You said I had ignored your post about female teachers working part time.

I responded to that by saying I thought that was down to sexism and how we expect men and women to gave different work life balance but you ignored that.

So I asked if your comment was supposed to be a 'gotcha'

Probably best just to leave it there.

@saraclara

My mistake, I misread your post.

I dont think you get many oil rig workers on mumsnet. Maybe there is a forum full of them out there moaning they're not part time.

And you're other point about shift workers not being told they work part time isn't true.

Ive had all sorts of comments, part time, barely there. Would love that so many days off etc etc

I've no idea why teachers always think its only them that have to defend their working hours, how hard they work or what they're paid

There's loads of threads on mumsnet, true. Bug presumably that's because the nature of the site

There's loads of threads about how shit hcp are too. And how higher earners don't deserve their wages.

If you dont like them or find them annoying or boring, maybe dont read them?

You said:

The point I was answering was that only teachers pay was ever discussed

They didn’t say that, as your reference demonstrates.

London maybe yes, but I do a job as a single mum (not london), earning the starting salary of a teacher (I'm not a teacher), and I'm on a 52-week contract. A teacher is certainly not in a position where they need to marry rich to subsidise their pay, and if think they do, then they need a reality check!

Their pay is fine. It's the conditions that are the issue.

Find this interesting. I’ve been teaching 18 years, also have a tlr role (whole school) I don’t have a student loan, but I bring home 3.5k every month.
ours is a large academy. We also get loads of health/fitness benefits which includes private health care and life insurance. We have an amazing sickness policy, which means we get paid in full for 6 months off ill with a sick note and then a further 6 months after a meeting. After this it drops to half pay for another 6 months if needed.
I really do think it depends on the school you are in. All staff at my school progress up the teaching pay scales without having to take on additional responsibilities. Once staff reach ups3, they are given opportunities to take on a tlr role. Leaders often leave and progress further in promoted roles in other schools/settings within our large academy, this means the next batch of hopeful teachers can progress up the career ladder.
I genuinely think it depends on your school if you feel unappreciated and overworked.
i only stay back for an hour on Thursday (year11 revision class) other than that I leave school with the students and rarely work in the evenings or weekends.

You said I had ignored your post about female teachers working part time.

I said that I worked part time and it was only because I worked part time that the workload was manageable.

You say that teachers are leaving because of the workload. That's true. The workload is insane. That doesn't mean that the pay is acceptable for the work done.

I responded to that by saying I thought that was down to sexism and how we expect men and women to gave different work life balance but you ignored that.

There are fewer part time teachers, percentage-wise, than part time workers in other professions. This is an issue because, as I said, going part time is one way to cope with the ridiculous workload. There are actually initiatives to try and improve the part time working offer to teachers as a retention measure.

The major sexist issue here is regarding pay, not part time working. We cannot have a profession that is female dominated and therefore have pay based on the assumption that wages will be propped up by a better-paid male partner. And yet that is often the reality.

People keep saying the pay is good, but it is not good compared to (as cant points out) male graduate professions.

People arguing that the pay is fine for the work are doing the usual trick of undervaluing female-dominated professions. Female teachers who say the pay is fine are probably undervaluing their work.

@CandleInTheStorm
bur anywhere in London or outer London they do! Maybe not up north or in the countryside

@borntobequiet

Replace discussed with scrutinised as much then

I'm neither up north nor in the countryside. I'm in one of the very normal towns outside of London

You MUST know how vanishingly rare those pay and conditions are.

That must also be a very significant TLR as that is beyond anything approaching normal. Are you,in actual fact, on the leadership spine?

Ok is it on the tube

@noblegiraffe

You do understand it then?

'That doesn't mean that the pay is acceptable for the work done.'

What do you think is an acceptable amount?

The problem is, that not all teachers do the work. There's no consistency. Some teachers say they work 50 to 60 hours term time. Some say they work 40 hours term time. Some say they work 60 hours a week year round. Some say its school dependent.

Then there's the difference between countries. Scottish teachers have different contracts and pay scales.

Do you mean more teachers are part time than other professions?

Female dominated proffessons being lower paid than male dominated professions is obviously sexist. But it also ties back into part time work and flexible work.

People who say the pay is fine are also comparing it against their own wages and workload.

Teaching isn't the only underpaid profession

I wish we lived in a society that valued teachers instead of footballers or kardashians but we don't. And unless we start paying every underpaid role what they should be paid, teachers are likely going to have to accept that those on less won't agree its not enough

Proving my point

Yes, after reading this thread it appears schools like ours are rare.
In most schools around here tlr 1 is £14,700 and if you are already ups3 (43-48k depending on location) that’s a total pay of £57-63k? Then there are retention allowances for running extra curricular/after school workshops etc. I must add we are a really large secondary school with a post 16 unit.
I’ve worked here for 18 years. Started as an nqt and never left.

No wonder!

I'm imagining the number of messages you're getting from secondary teachers on this thread, behind the scenes. They'll be flocking to your place.

Of course others on this thread will have decided that one vanishingly rare MN teacher's pay, conditions and workload is what we all have, and ignore the rest of the thread.

wow, this is very rare! We dont get the sick pay, or paid for running after school clubs, are anything like that. After school clubs are expected, but we do them for free.

For what it's worth, I realised something shocking the other day regarding teachers wages. When I was an outer London M1 teacher in 2008 my pay was about £25k. That same teacher now earns about £31k, so a £6k uplift in that roles salary in 15yrs.

I rented a flat with my then boyfriend; he was a newly qualified police officer on about £26k. That equivalent police officer is on about £32k now, so a £6k uplift for them too.

The one bed flat we rented back then cost us £650 a month, so £325 each or about 16% of my income and 15% of his (little more than 15% of our household income).

That same flat- and I mean the EXACT same flat, same block, same floor, very same flat, not an equivalent or similar flat- now costs £1550 a month to rent- £775 each. 30% of the teachers wage, 29% of the police officers, around 29% of the total household income. TWICE as much of the household income!! That's madness. And that's just housing, I would love to see the maths done for the other areas you need to pay out for to live.

So when teachers are complaining about their pay, this is actually what we are complaining about. The money has gone up but not in line with everything else, so therefore we are worse off in real terms. I'd go as far as to say that I'm worse off in real terms on UPS3 now than I was as a NQT on M1; my percentage of money that's disposable is much less for an equivalent lifestyle.

But these conditions don't happen in primaries. I've never known anyone to earn more than a TLR2, and that's increasingly unusual. I'm a bog standard primary class teacher and work far, far more hours than a secondary friend who is a Head of Department (and believe me I could work many more hours, but I have quite firm boundaries and small children who I need to parent).

Then quit and do a different job. All the teachers moaning and complaining, make changes, do something else if you’re unhappy!

Sorry Piggy, obviously quoted the wrong post. I was responding to the secondary teacher with all the benefits.

I'm not sure if this was to me but I'm not unhappy, merely pointing out to the incredulous secondary teacher that the pay she describes is pretty much impossible to achieve in primary. I actually rather like my job.