Mother’s Day- are we setting unrealistic expectations

[Whiteroomjoy]

Just read yet another thread where women have been upset by husbands “ruining” Mother’s Day for posters. So much disappointment, dissatisfaction and hurt being discussed

when I was young Mother’s Day was not the commercialised as it is now. I don’t remember any fathers doing stuff for his wife as his children’s mother. Usually it was schools and Sunday schools, particularly, that got kids to make a mothers day card, or encouraged kids to pick some flowers (ok, we had less regard for picking wild flowers back then🤦‍♀️) . That was it. Only involved kids that were old enough to do something for their mums under a steer from school or church. The main things for mums was Mothering Sunday church service - that wasn’t driven by dads , but by tradition and the church. In some churches mums got a small bunch of daffs to recognise their efforts whether they were new mums, Grans or whatever

up until relatively recently most dads would play little or no part until Sunday service. And certainly not be buying gifts or doing cards on behalf of babies who can’t hold a pencil yet. Mums didn’t get a day off. Often there was a bigger family roast on Sunday - I do remember though an expectation that the blokes would do the washing up to give mum a rest. But it certainly never was a “special all day” for mums to relax and not do anything with dads doing everything and all.

yes, there would have been exceptions . Some dads would have given mum a cuppa in bed etc. but that wasn’t the norm .

we all know the vast majority of men do not do the emotional labour regarding social celebrations and family rituals. A lot used to be part of a social calander through churches who upheld these traditions. But church no longer plays that role in most of our lives. I’m quite convinced that left to men we’d have abandoned birthday celebrations and Xmas years ago, when most people stopped going to church.

why are so many women setting themselves up for a fall here. Yep, there are men who will recognise and do lovely things for the “mums” in their lives including their own wives, but a lot of men are just doing the minimum or nothing in accordance with what they do for all the other traditions in the house. If you remember all the birthdays, do most of Xmas , why would you then be disappointed your husband does sod all for Mother’s Day for you.

im not saying it’s right. But I think there’s a lot of heart ache here from having very unreal expectations of Mother’s Day. It was a church service . It was a way of getting bums on seats in a church and therefore money in donation coffers (ok, bit cynical but true) .

I’m with you OP. I grew up within the CofE and Mothering Sunday was always driven by school and church. I guess it’s gone the way of many things now, overly commercialised. Thinking also of excessive hen parties, baby showers and push presents.

Look, I think there’s a lot of responses from mums with very appreciate husbands that do things for Mother’s Day and had a lovely day by and large, and probably have ongoing supportive partnerships all year round. Those saying I’m setting low expectations and you expect this or that and your partner does them, aren’t the ones posting about how awful your day was yesterday or things your spouse got wrong

im talking about women who lay an awful lot in store of “one special day” who are clearly not getting the sort of support they’re expecting on that one day for the rest of the year. And somehow they’re confusing Mother’s Day with a day they’re expecting their spouses to change their spots. It ain’t going to happen . And Mother’s Day was never a single partner appreciation day.

think about it- why don’t we have a “wife appreciation day” or “husband appreciation day”. That’s because most people want that 365 days of a year

People seem to expect different things, some are delighted with tea in bed and a bunch of flowers and some expect something more expensive that a child obviously can't buy e.g. jewellery or a meal out how can a child possibly do that? A grown up child with a job but a 7 or 8 year old isn't going to have enough pocket money are they.

I think you have low expectations of men’s intelligence levels OP. Proven by the fact that you said you expected your adult sons needed a nudge from their partners to recognise their own mother on Mother’s Day.
Most of the women who were upset/disappointed yesterday were those with young children, so they and their partners are unlikely to be in their 60’s and therefore can only be expected to understand the religious origins of Mother’s Day. My husband is 40 and he says he remembers his dad helping them to buy gifts/take their mum out for lunch etc, so that’s 40 he’s had to get used to these apparently new and unwritten rules that are apparently so baffling to them.
Also, are we also saying that poor confused women dont understand that it’s quite nice to help their children get a card/gift etc for Father’s Day? Or are women just somehow quicker at picking up these new, baffling, unwritten rules?

having an entire day off and expecting husbands to do everything on that one single day. That’s nowt to do with kids , they can’t, if young, cook dinner, wash up etc. they might help dad but they can’t do it all. Why this one day? Why is that a “mothering” recognition when it’s about a partner doing all that

Because some husband's are nice to their wives and recognise all they do for the family as a whole so don't mind doing something nice. My DS stayed out on Saturday night but DH still brought me a cup of tea in bed.

not getting a present or a shot present from husband - when was this a thing ?

It's your husband buying a present on the child's behalf.....

not going out to eat- again fair do at any time being critical if husband expect you to cook all Sunday dinners , but why expect to eat out on mothering Sunday if you’re kids are small non wage earners. It’s not the, paying - essentially it’s you anyway

Because it's a nice thing to do.

Nope. If you read what I’ve said, I specially mention that I don’t accept that and have a particular intolerance

the issue I’m raising is why, if you’re a women who does put up its that, do you expect MOTHERS day to be a day when he stops doing they, it isn’t wife appreciation day, why would he

So it’s the woman’s fault for her expectations being too high and not a man’s fault for being shit all year round?
The simple concept here is that it a child is too young to pop to the shop and get a card/gift etc then it’s nice for their father to help them out with that. It’s not a concept that takes great brains to comprehend, and a lot of men manage it. Most women manage to help their children out with it on Father’s Day too. It isn’t a radically new concept, my mother and father did the same in the 70’s and 80’s. It also isn’t particularly onerous.

But it's not just Mother's Day is it? Easter, Christmas, Birthdays, Valentines, Wedding Anniversaries, significant anniversaries, push presents. You can't go long on here without someone being offended.

Well, it's a larger issue, sure -- I think the 'staggeringly high' expectations are in many cases because the base level of behaviour in terms of basically running a household together is so staggeringly low. If someone doesn't pull his weight at all in terms of doing half the housework and childcare, assuming both parents work equivalent hours outside the home, then too much gets projected onto days which are associated with women getting treats and a break.

In my own case, I'm not at all concerned about birthdays and Mother's Day etc, probably in part because DH is a genuine partner in everything, despite working away a lot -- DS (10) wrote me a card, recorded me a video and gave me flowers and a little candleholder he'd made at school, and DH had no input into any of this. But that's not a problem as far as I'm concerned, because I'm not doing a disproportionate amount of stuff in terms of childcare and housework the other 364 days a year. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I were and have had high expectations of what should have happened yesterday.

Its beyond ridiculous. A card used to be fine. Seems that partmers are either saints or demons on here.

Yes, they are all occasions where it is culturally the norm for people to acknowledge loved ones, and there is sometimes disappointment when this doesn’t happen. What is your point?

I don't think "we never used to do this so why are we doing it now" is a particularly good argument to be honest. Otherwise why not just say "we never used to allow women to have their own bank accounts or take out a mortgage and now everyone's moaning about the cost of living, inflation linked pay, and interest rates so isn't it our own fault for wanting more than we had in the past?"

A card, box of chocolates or bunch of flowers and someone else cooking or buying the main meal for once really really isn't much to ask.

The only thing I don't get is the martyrdom - when the men in women's lives repeatedly SHOW them that they cba to put the bare minimum effort in for mothers day/birthdays/christmas/when they are ill/when mum goes for a rare night out etc. But the women STILL fall over themselves to make their birthdays/fathers day etc. special.

Why? Either celebrating your life partner doesn't matter/is too commercialised/whatever other excuse they trot out, which,okay is still a bit shit as ideally in relationships you do things that make the other person happy even if it isn't your cup of tea, but is at least honest- as you say if it wasn't for women a lot of men probably wouldn't bother with big celebrations etc. Or it does matter but they cba to do it for others but expect it for themselves in which case why enable it?

The same applies to children over the age of about 13....if they cba to even send a card for mothers day just accept it but don't then go over the top feeling you have to treat them like your little prince/ss and slave to their every whim.

Treat people as you'd like to be treated but also get some self respect and vice versa!

I don't really see that much has changed except that fortunately more women have raised their standards.

My dad is generally a rather useless individual and he was a god awful husband to my poor mother, but even he made an effort on Mother's Day. I certainly remember Mothering Sunday being a day when my mum had a "day off" - trust me, I remember my dad's terrible excuse for cooking.

We didn't do buy much more than a bunch of daffodils, a card, and maybe chocolates. But on mothers' my younger sibling and I would always make mum breakfast in bed, we "helped" make tea and coffee throughout the day, and just generally made a fuss of my mum.

We'd always go and see our grandmother too - my grandad always cooked dinner after church and made a fuss of my nan on Mother's Day. My grandad actually did his fair share of cooking and housework so this was less notable I suppose, but my nan was definitely made a fuss of by grandad and all her adult children on Mother's Day.

So to me that seems normal. If you grew up with male relatives who didn't respect/care about female relatives, I guess your standards might be lower...

I think people have more of a sense of occasion these days. It's not only true of Mother's Day but so many other days - look at how Halloween is celebrated now compared to when I was growing up in the 80s. Or stag and hen do - used to be a night out the day before a wedding and now often involves trips abroad etc. Weddings used to be fairly quiet affairs. Both my parents and grandparents went back to their parents house after the wedding for tea and cake. That was their wedding reception. Now people often have huge weddings, spending more than a year's salary on one day. We also have baby showers which didn't exist when I was growing up. And look at the commercialised frenzy that Christmas has become! My dad used to get an apple and an orange every christmas morning and he was grateful. And birthdays! I know a lot of people who go away with friends for big birthdays, hiring a cottage etc.
So yes, everything's changed. People make a BIG deal out of events these days. Mother's Day is just one example of this.

So why, @Whiteroomjoy, do women manage to do all the breakfast in bed, buy a little gift (nice bar of chocolate/book) and a card for the toddlers to give to dad on Father's Day?

Women don't have an inbuilt 'let's give your dad a treat' radar, they learn it. Usually from their parents. So maybe we just don't teach our sons correctly. We obviously don't if, as grown men, they can't do a simple task of putting a date alert on their phone to buy a flaming card. Then figure out how to stick a chicken in the oven when they become a dad to kids who are too small to do it themselves!

DS (who is 15) went and got me a plant and a lovely card without prompting and brought me a cup of tea in bed to start the day. Then he made a lunch with help from his dad. Why? Because DH has done this every year for 15 years, gradually handing over the responsibility and choice to DS. Like his dad and my dad did before with us (I'm 60 too btw and my dad always got flowers from us for mum until we were old enough to make the choice of gift for ourselves). And that's the reason why dads should 'do Mother's Day' FOR the kids when they are small - set an example then gradually let them take over. Like everything else they learn from us as parents.

It's like at Christmas - DS couldn't trot off and get a gift for his dad and I at 2 years old. But we both got a gift from him every year (and it wasn't Santa who went out and bought it). We haven't waited until DS had his own cash to buy that Christmas gift because that would be daft! Most men can figure out when Christmas is and buy the card and gift for 'mum' from the kids then so they can figure out Mother's Day.

So why should women have to wait until the kids think of it for themselves just because it's 'Mother's' Day? DS has learned from his dad because his dad wants to teach him to care for his mum every day but show a bit more effort for one flaming day each year (just as he does at Christmas and birthdays) - it's not hard.

Agree to some extent, but from what I saw most of the women who were upset yesterday weren’t expecting the earth, they just wanted something. They’d have been happy if their partners had taken the kids to the shop to choose a card and their favourite chocolate bar.

OP in a PP you say that you expected that your children’s partners gave them a ‘nudge’ about Mother’s Day. Why? Because they’re men? If your children were women would you expect their partners to give them a nudge? Because despite your protestations I think that underlines the premise of this thread; you think men are somehow less able than women to remember and acknowledge special occasions. If that’s not the case, why do you expect your sons to need a nudge to acknowledge their mother on Mother’s Day?

@DanceMonster totally agree with this - "OP in a PP you say that you expected that your children’s partners gave them a ‘nudge’ about Mother’s Day. Why? Because they’re men? If your children were women would you expect their partners to give them a nudge? Because despite your protestations I think that underlines the premise of this thread; you think men are somehow less able than women to remember and acknowledge special occasions. If that’s not the case, why do you expect your sons to need a nudge to acknowledge their mother on Mother’s Day?"

If my DS needs a prompt from his partner to give her a lovely day on Mother's Day then he'll be getting a strip torn off from me and his dad. He can read and write and he knows how to put a date in a calendar. Job done.

It can be seen as being commercialised, but all the threads I read on here weren't about gifts or how much money was spent, it was about their family, be it fathers of smaller children or older children simply not making an effort.

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a lie in, a cuppa made for you and maybe even a meal out or made (inc the washing up) for Mother's Day. Let's face it the vast majority of mothers do the lions share of running the house and rearing children, so yea, I do think a bit of effort once a year is a very small price to pay for this. If you think the old days were better, then I for one disagree.

That's true. I got a card and a plant. And I am more than happy with that. It was a gift from my son - not a birthday gift from an adult who has money to spend.

But, if you read some of the posts from yesterday, some women didn't even get that. And that's thoughtless.

I must be in a minority of one. My mum now in her 90s out her foot down about Mother’s Day in the 1950s she didn’t want to be celebrated for being a mother on one day she expected recognition any day it was definitely from a feminist perspective and I have carried on with this so my adult children do not do anything and I actively don’t want them do again from a feminist perspective we don’t do Father’s Day either we just try to be nice to each other.

I totally agree with you OP but I still don't think most are "getting it "
If your husband, partner does nothing for birthdays,anniversaries and is a lazy shit or just doesn't bother with any special occasion, why are you disappointed they don't nothing for Mothers day.

So all the women who posted about being disappointed yesterday also said that their partners don’t buy them anything for birthdays, anniversaries etc and are complete lazy shits generally, did they?

@DanceMonster
No idea as there are far too many to read.

And actually what the OP is saying it that no women should expect their partners to facilitate their children getting them gifts etc for Mother’s Day because this wasn’t expected 60 years ago and men can’t learn new ‘rules’.

I don’t have low expectations of men’s intelligence
This is about mens and women’s socialisation. As I said I’m not saying it’s right but it is what it is

woman are socialised to manage societies rituals. As a mum , even in my day (and fgs I’m 60 not an ancient old women , my mum was a 1960s feminist , and my youngest dc left university and became independent only 4 years ago), we would discuss Mother’s Day, we’d be doing nursery pick ups, school drop offs and it would come up in conversations. It was in womens magazines, it was in card and flower shops we’d visit, and nowadays it’s all over social media that heuristics ensure we see, MN that predominantly women go onto etc. Same as for Xmas, women on MN start posting about Xmas in august and September. It’s bloody hard to miss those types o& events if you’re a women

I have never heard the men in my life, including men at work, ever discuss Father’s Day other than saying they got a nice card or whatever AFTER the event. It is not generally something that comes up in men’s discussions, nor plans for Xmas in the minutiae that women’s social media go into (table decorations trends etc). Most men I’ve known, including at work, roll their eyes or are bemused when someone starts to try to book the office xmas do in august. These event planning are just not coming into their social awareness until the 11 th hour . Some of men egg each other on, and even see it as a badge of pride that they shouldn’t do stuff in advance - I once had a boss Bragg how he’d bought his wife’s xmas present on xmas eve by Amazon cos he relied on same day delivery🙄. Yep, they’re crap, but really, if you don’t know by now that it’s not on men’s radar until it’s imminent and blaring in front of them, you’re living under a bush

I don’t think some women understand how much conditioning we get to be emotional labourers, from our upbringing, our social media, our reading material, our interaction with children’s caregivers, and we are being constantly reminded of events as they come up. We get treated a lot harsher if we miss or forget events. Right now in society , men do not get that same social pressure or awareness - it’s not that they are stupid or I’ve low opinion of their intelligence, - they just don’t see it, hear it, or get the same level of negative social pressure for not making the effort as women do.

some men do get it- they stick it in their diaries or remeber it cost heirloom mothers would, and probably have in past, had a melt down when they’ve forgotten , My ex, would get kids to make something on Mother’s Day, but he’d show his appreciation of me all through the year (ok, he’s an ex but after 30 years of marriage and I’ve never had cause to criticise his efforts in this front ). But bloody hell, I didn’t expect him to know the unwritten rules about my expectations he’d not agreed to , nor did I expect to have a random day off , dictated by card companies and the church, while he ran around like a blue arsed fly while I did my “princess” for a day . I’d get a lie in and a cuppa, then game on as usual and that was lovely and fine by me- it’s a commercial , money making day and I’d rather have his support on the day and times I needed it

society will not change with positioning women as th primary movers and shakers of rituals until money making is removed. Why thechell do you think so many women allow themselves to b manipulate by social media, magazines, marketing, to have the perfect Xmas lunch,c the perfect table setting, the new hell of Xmas eve boxes. We’re socialised as people pleaser and everyone is making money out of that