I can't believe the French have been retiring at 62 thus far.

[PupInAPram]

Seriously, the 64 years Macron wants to put the retirement age up to would be like a dream to me! Wonder how much their pension is?

More than ours is, but that's the same across Western Europe.

The French don't put up with crap the way we do

OP does not have any French relatives then.

Those higher pensions are paid for with higher taxes and social charges.

They pay those higher taxes to have a good standard of healthcare and early retirement. No doubt the press will tell us how those idlers across the Channel are one of the reasons we left Europe. Retiring early in their Republic with their liberte, egalitere and fraternite, who do they think they Are?

Precisely, I live in France and it's clear where the money is spent....amazing healthcare, pot hole free roads....

You do realise we have one of the smallest if not the smallest state pension of Western European OECD countries?

Also whether you would be better off living in France depends on who you are.

Prior to Brexit young French professionals had started moving into my part of London. The reasons were due to their background and/or skin colour they had better job prospects in the UK.

The last French guy I worked closely with decided to stay in the UK with his family as he felt his children would grow up facing less discrimination.

The UK pension is terrible.

Much higher takes in France. A person in the UK on £45k would pay £10k in tax, in France it would be £18k.

I watched the chaos this morning on the news and wonder what the outcome will be. Do you think he will cave in and raise taxes to keep the retirement age at 62 or plough on with the age of 64?

It has to be paid for somehow and I'm glad I'm not in charge. All those angry residents, the rubbish piled high.

They are so much militant than us Brits, aren't they!

That being the case, the cost of living will, I imagine, be relative to people’s take home salaries.

If I can find somewhere to live and feed myself on the remaining 27K, retire at 64 with a good pension and public services, 18k tax sounds good to me.

As far as I’m aware the French don’t have the wealth inequality that we do, which props up high prices (esp housing) and leaves most people screwed.

I think the real question is, why do people in the UK put up with things being so awful here and not protest like the French do.

If you’d been paying higher taxes your whole life with the expectation you’d retire at 62 then I think you’d also be very pissed the retirement age was moved!

We have a system that’s constantly in flux with some people never paying tax so I don’t think we have the same level of expectation.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0033350608002783#:~:text=Compared%20with%20other%20countries%20in,socioprofessional%20and%20lower%20income%20groups.

This was the first thing that came up when I googled, dont know how accurate it is or whether its biased.

We have family in Spain, they moan non stop about lack of state support, unfair working practices (particularly for women) women not being supported in terms of child care, access to public services etc etc

I dont know much about France but Im always intriged by the way other countries are presented as much better than the UK in these aspects

personaly I would want a much more socialist and higher tax stance in the UK but to pretend all is well in other countries I find baffling.

Indeed. But apparently WASPI women were unreasonable when their retirement age was raised twice.

I've just read that in practice the French retire almost at the same average age as the Brits - a difference of only a few months. I'll see if I can find the article....

The French don't all retire at 62, certainly not on a full pension.

A lot of the arrangements are sector dependent and can be very nice indeed (classic example of quoted is some in rail industry - some legacy employees), but OTOH despite the impression sometimes given in the MSM many French workers are still hard at work into their late sixties or beyond.

When making comparisons with the UK it's worth bearing in mind that in order to get the full French state pension you need to have been contributing for (?) 43 years - hence the reason why many who have been to university etc work well beyond 62, and you need to be aware of the level of contributions both employees and employers make into pension schemes..

The differences between the UK vs. France are such it's almost not worth trying to make comparisons.

Even with higher taxes they clearly can't afford to keep it hence the proposal to increase the age to 64.

Have you not noticed the millions of people on strike and marches in recent weeks?

Basically everyone who’s been to university works beyond 62, otherwise you can’t meet the 43 years of work requirement for full pension. Teachers now have to have 5 years of post-school education, so don’t start working til 23 at the earliest, they’ll have to work til 66 minimum anyway. And there is no maximum working age for doctors. Many GPs in the countryside are working over the age of 70, mine is planning to retire at 75.

In 1983, François Mitterrand's government reduced the retirement age from 65 to 60

That's one way to try an get re-elected!

(... and possibly muck up the countries finances.)

It's 35 years of contributions for a full pension.

A lot of students work part time these days as well which gets them either full or part contributions for that year (which they could top up to make a qualifying year)

The 43 years was referring to French pensions.

oh ... ignore me ... are you talking about France?
I didn't know that!
That's a lot of years needed ... Do they also give years for childrearing, as we do here?

^^ Very much agree on all points - the thread title is wrong.

FWIW as an example my previous Generaliste (GP equivalent ) retired at 70 plus a bit.

My Dad retired on a full pension from the UK civil service at 60 in 2009. That used to be one of the public sector perks.