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Disrespectful to make fun of another poster because they speak and write differently because they are from the US

301 replies

StopThinkBeforeYouJudge · 13/03/2023 00:48

Just that really.
I saw a post and within it another poster decided it was annoying the way another poster had written the word "y'all".Plenty of Southerners,not just Texans used this word daily.It was really strange how she kept on about it and even said we "y'all " sayers shouldn't even write it out here on mumsnet. Personally I'm from the state that has lots of tornadoes fyi.
But I've never seen anyone nor would I ever dare tell another poster how to spell words or how to put them on paper,EVER.
It's not a UK,US thing at all.
I just think we need to respect each other more.
I'm aware there will be some that come for me on here,but I will still continue to encourage us all to respect each other more.

OP posts:
StopThinkBeforeYouJudge · 13/03/2023 14:22

OhNoitsHappenedAgain · 13/03/2023 14:10

I think it is rude to poke fun at how anybody speaks. I also think it is the height of bad manners to correct other peoples grammar, spelling mistakes etc. It says more about the person that is pointing it out, and their obvious flaws than the person on the receiving end.

I agree with you.
Especially since this is an international forum and there are many differences between us all.
But even in everyday life as well.

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 13/03/2023 14:26

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:09

What are you on about? You agreed with me that the word is French in origin but is also defined as a stand-alone English word deriving from the original French. You’ve tied yourself up in a knot here over nothing.

Not at all. You are missing the bigger picture. ‘Poseur’ is an affectation from French, so widely used that you can consider it part of the English language (ironically though, it was also met with repudiation by many).

That’s the natural evolution of language. You can see the same evolution with the introduction of ‘y’all’ which may indeed become so widely used that it becomes an accepted part of British English.

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 13/03/2023 14:28

@SleepingStandingUp it was a genuine question about whether I should correct "anyways", not a rhetorical one. I did not intend it to read as "of course I must correct him, go on, I dare you (y'all!) to disagree".

I am genuinely in two minds about whether it matters. For example, might he be marked down in school if he uses it? He has a classmate with an American mother, if his classmate uses it the school could not complain, so probably no big deal for DS to use it too. He's not affecting an American accent (his classmate has an English accent too).

I think it's important he knows that there are variants, and where they tend to be used, but perhaps that is all that needs to be said.

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 14:28

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:22

Not at all back pedalling. If you read my posts I’ve said the same thing consistently since the other poster brought it up.
‘It's laughable really and ironic to think that a French word is now an English word and shouldnt be considered an affectation’ - it’s not an affectation because poseur is recognised as an English word, deriving from the French original. I’m not sure why you can’t follow that.
I don’t think y’all is beneath me. I do think someone sitting in Catford or Birmingham or Carlisle saying y’all is a bit of a saddo twit trying to look like they have a personality.
I haven’t said my use of English is perfect. I use the idiom of hiberno-English originating where I was born and brought up. I don’t go round doing a Liam Gallagher impression because I was ‘immersed’ in the culture of the North West of England working in Manchester for a decade.

Oh bless your heart honey. You're truly invested in this 'anti-Americanism' business. You can think what you want while people live their lives using said Americanisms. You do you hun. Lol

JenniferBarkley · 13/03/2023 14:30

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 13:25

Watching American tv is not being immersed in it. I have a brother who has actually lived in the Deep South for more than 15 years. His spouse and children all speak with southern American accents. I am yet to hear him say y’all, and he actually lives there. As children myself and many other children here in N. Ireland were sent to the USA during the summer time to stay with American families who kindly took us in. There was always maybe one child out of 100 who came back after 6 weeks talking with an American accent and claiming they didn’t even realise they were doing it. Of course they did, it’s called attention seeking. If a ten year old knows this, so does an adult.

I do this, and it's certainly not on purpose. I find it very embarrassing actually, and people are often very rude about it. I couldn't imitate a Northern Irish accent before I moved here and after a fortnight I sounded like a local.

There have been numerous threads on here over the years, it's not that unusual. Some people claim it's due to a musical ear but my own musical talents remain undiscovered Grin

SleepingStandingUp · 13/03/2023 14:33

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 13/03/2023 14:28

@SleepingStandingUp it was a genuine question about whether I should correct "anyways", not a rhetorical one. I did not intend it to read as "of course I must correct him, go on, I dare you (y'all!) to disagree".

I am genuinely in two minds about whether it matters. For example, might he be marked down in school if he uses it? He has a classmate with an American mother, if his classmate uses it the school could not complain, so probably no big deal for DS to use it too. He's not affecting an American accent (his classmate has an English accent too).

I think it's important he knows that there are variants, and where they tend to be used, but perhaps that is all that needs to be said.

Sorry, hard to read the tone on here sometimes but my reply standards. I'd correct where it matters, not when he's saying, "anyways, if off to bed, right y'all". School may correct grammar in assignments tho (though)

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:33

whumpthereitis · 13/03/2023 14:26

Not at all. You are missing the bigger picture. ‘Poseur’ is an affectation from French, so widely used that you can consider it part of the English language (ironically though, it was also met with repudiation by many).

That’s the natural evolution of language. You can see the same evolution with the introduction of ‘y’all’ which may indeed become so widely used that it becomes an accepted part of British English.

It’s not an affectation because it is a word in English. By your reasoning then any word in English derived from French, German, Irish, Indian, Swedish, whatever, is an affectation and not primarily an English word, which would completely destroy the English language. Y’all and similar are affectations because they are solely associated with people residing in the USA, predominantly the southern states. The user chooses to employ the vocabulary in order to attempt to transmit something about themselves with the use of the language, something which is not actually true. That is the difference.

CarolinaInTheMorning · 13/03/2023 14:34

For what it's worth "anyways" is not standard American English; it's used informally, but it is certainly not a universally accepted usage. I corrected my children when they said it.

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:35

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 14:28

Oh bless your heart honey. You're truly invested in this 'anti-Americanism' business. You can think what you want while people live their lives using said Americanisms. You do you hun. Lol

I am probably one of the most pro- American posters on this site lol lol lol. You haven’t a clue what you are on about. I’m just anti fake try hards 🤷‍♀️

SleepingStandingUp · 13/03/2023 14:36

JenniferBarkley · 13/03/2023 14:30

I do this, and it's certainly not on purpose. I find it very embarrassing actually, and people are often very rude about it. I couldn't imitate a Northern Irish accent before I moved here and after a fortnight I sounded like a local.

There have been numerous threads on here over the years, it's not that unusual. Some people claim it's due to a musical ear but my own musical talents remain undiscovered Grin

Exactly, some people are just spongier. I'm awful at languages but a long weekend with my Uni mates and I get a northern twang. Drove my Dad crazy when I'm come back in the holiday and my accent was a weird northern hybrid. Yes I have a friend from NZ who has her accent decades after moving over here. I find it fascinating

MissingMoominMamma · 13/03/2023 14:37

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 13/03/2023 13:39

@MissingMoominMamma you do know that the misspelling of Murphy is a deliberate joke, don't you?

In that case, I apologise! 😄

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 13/03/2023 14:37

Th Anna to those who have commented on whether "y'all" has singular and plural forms.

I think that the reference to "all y'all" is misleading because the examples given are exactly the same as where we would also use "all" in British English with "you".

Eg addressing a group:

You are welcome to ask questions (clear from context that you plural is meant, this could also be "y'all")

Are you all /all of you going to join us for lunch, or will some make their own arrangements? (This would be "all y'all" in a "y'all-friendly" environment)

It's not a plural, it's just using the word "all" in the normal way, but looks funny because "all" is part of the you plural form "y'all"

In Scotland you might get "Youse are welcome to ask questions" and "Are all youse joining us for lunch?" (I think that use of youse in Scotland is much more informal/slang than y'all in the Southern US though).

whumpthereitis · 13/03/2023 14:39

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:33

It’s not an affectation because it is a word in English. By your reasoning then any word in English derived from French, German, Irish, Indian, Swedish, whatever, is an affectation and not primarily an English word, which would completely destroy the English language. Y’all and similar are affectations because they are solely associated with people residing in the USA, predominantly the southern states. The user chooses to employ the vocabulary in order to attempt to transmit something about themselves with the use of the language, something which is not actually true. That is the difference.

Well yes, English is a lingual bastard. I don’t see how recognising this destroys or degrades the language at all. Actually, it’s fascinating.

The difference then, between an affectation and a British English word, is merely the passage of time.

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 14:42

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:35

I am probably one of the most pro- American posters on this site lol lol lol. You haven’t a clue what you are on about. I’m just anti fake try hards 🤷‍♀️

So you're an American who hates it when British people use American slangs?

You're Scottish/ Welsh/ Irish and want people (especially the English) to stop using American slangs because you love the US so much you don't want their slangs bastardised by the non-American fakers?

You're from another country and you are so pro-America that you hate when British people 'pose' with American slangs?

Which is it?

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:45

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 14:42

So you're an American who hates it when British people use American slangs?

You're Scottish/ Welsh/ Irish and want people (especially the English) to stop using American slangs because you love the US so much you don't want their slangs bastardised by the non-American fakers?

You're from another country and you are so pro-America that you hate when British people 'pose' with American slangs?

Which is it?

I am Irish. I think people who use Americanisms despite being as English (or Irish or welsh or Scottish) as they come are ridic. I just think they are wallies 🤷‍♀️ think most people in the real world would agree with that.

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 14:51

Shall we ask most people in the real world or have you already done so?

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 14:55

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 14:51

Shall we ask most people in the real world or have you already done so?

I know quite a broad cross section of people and most if not all would agree with me I would say. Most people do think if you go round using American slang when you aren’t from or in North America then yes you are a Wally. I wouldn’t have thought that was controversial. Are you surprised by that??

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 15:01

I'm not surprised at all that the broad section of people you know think like you.

However, you mentioned most people in the real world, so these people you know are most people in the real world then? Or are you surrendering that position that though most people you and some posters know think oddly (compared to most people I and some posters know, and vice versa), that doesn't mean most people in the world think the same.

It's okay to think what you want but don't think most people (in the world) agree with you unless you know most people (in the world). That's just basic.

It's arrogant to think your opinion is fact and shared by the majority, your majesty.

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 15:11

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 15:01

I'm not surprised at all that the broad section of people you know think like you.

However, you mentioned most people in the real world, so these people you know are most people in the real world then? Or are you surrendering that position that though most people you and some posters know think oddly (compared to most people I and some posters know, and vice versa), that doesn't mean most people in the world think the same.

It's okay to think what you want but don't think most people (in the world) agree with you unless you know most people (in the world). That's just basic.

It's arrogant to think your opinion is fact and shared by the majority, your majesty.

You silly thing. I have friends from the proverbial Duke to dustman. I know and work for and with quite a lot of different kinds of people. I have a pretty good feel for how people feel about things generally. And most people think if you use y’all, etc but you are not from the USA you are a bit of a plonker/Wally/wanker.

ScentOfAMemory · 13/03/2023 15:23

theconversation.com/what-makes-us-subconsciously-mimic-the-accents-of-others-in-conversation-181771

Interesting article here on convergence (adapting your own language in accordance to the context you find yourself in) for those descriptivists genuinely interested in language.

For the prescriptivists- it won't be for y'all. Nothing to see here. Move on.

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 15:26

Right so you do know most people in the real world because you "have friends from the proverbial Duke to dustman. I know and work for and with quite a lot of different kinds of people. I have a pretty good feel for how people feel about things generally".

I stand corrected then. I bow your greatness, your grace. I'm not worthy. Y'all carry on babez.

Eyerollcentral · 13/03/2023 15:30

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 15:26

Right so you do know most people in the real world because you "have friends from the proverbial Duke to dustman. I know and work for and with quite a lot of different kinds of people. I have a pretty good feel for how people feel about things generally".

I stand corrected then. I bow your greatness, your grace. I'm not worthy. Y'all carry on babez.

What a tiresome literalist. If you don’t honestly know most people think using y’all when you aren’t American is prattish, now you do 🤷‍♀️

BlessYourHeartHoney · 13/03/2023 15:35

You're getting irate for no reason. I already conceded to your wisdom.

Most people think so, says you, your Grace. I stand corrected. You know it all and you know most people, including most people I know. Is there still a problem, your highness? You do you y'all.

Sarahcoggles · 13/03/2023 15:35

BitOutOfPractice · 13/03/2023 09:29

You know “gotten” has been used in everyday speech in many parts of the uk though don’t you @Sarahcoggles , that it never went out of use? I mean you wouldn’t be stupid enough to assume and pronounce that everyone in the uk uses only the sage words as you would you? 😬

I await you telling me off for saying mom instead of mum in that case.

In 50 years I never heard the word gotten. Now it's everywhere. OK so maybe it's always been used in some parts of the UK but you have to acknowledge that now it's everywhere, in a way it wasn't previously.

mbosnz · 13/03/2023 15:37

I think many things are prattish, but using y'all surely isn't one of them.