Not comfortable with MIL watching toddler because of her partner

[DCxx]

My MIL was once outgoing, had friends, a job, left the house and did normal things. She has been with her partner for 10 years but very quickly stopped doing anything or going anywhere when they got together. She stopped working, doesn’t have any friends or hobbies now and can’t even go to the shop without him having to go with her. I’ve always found him very creepy and like there’s just something off about him.

Since having our little girl just over two years ago it became more apparent that she literally can’t leave the house without him and he’s very controlling. She’ll say no to going places (because he says no). She has barely seen our child. At first she used to come a walk with me but he would follow us in the car and always just hover around, it was so weird. One day she was standing chatting to me at my door before we went a walk, he had dropped her off 15 minutes before. We live in a cul-de-sac so there was literally no reason to come into our street but I looked up and saw him drive straight past my house. He was obviously planning to drive past then realised she was still there, he didn’t even look in or wave and I just got such stalker vibes from the whole thing. I said to my husband I didn’t ever want to leave our little girl with them without one of us being there because of his weird behaviour and he agreed he’s definitely controlling.

She’s never offered to help or asked to babysit so the conversation has never came up luckily and she goes to nursery now but this week she has randomly texted me asking to take her to her house regularly. My child doesn’t even know who she is as she sees her once every 6 weeks if she’s lucky. I felt so put on the spot by it as I have no way of telling her no without saying why. I’ve said I’d be more than happy for her to spend more time with her at our house or we can arrange days out at the weekend (which they won’t do as he won’t leave the house). She’s said no to both options and only wants to take her to their house on her own. My husband is now saying itl be fine and since I have the problem I should tell her why, I think he knows it’s not fine but gets defensive because it’s his mum. He still agrees that his behaviour is extremely weird. What can I say? Should he speak to her about him? Am I being over dramatic? Just don’t really want to take the risk, especially when they’ve made no effort before now!

"My child doesn’t even know who she is as she sees her once every 6 weeks if she’s lucky."
Easiest 'polite' reason to say no. 'DD has never seen you enough to get used to you enough to spend time with you alone. So, no.'

"She’s said no to both options and only wants to take her to their house on her own."
Absolutely not.

"My husband is now saying it'll be fine and since I have the problem I should tell her why, I think he knows it’s not fine but gets defensive because it’s his mum."

"[an abusing man is more likely to be abusive to a child] was the exact phrase I said to my husband today but he just shrugs it off as he doesn’t want to have to face a difficult conversation"

My comments below are meant directly for your husband OP, as I see you've told him about this thread.

It is time for you to step up and be a father and a husband, and not a son. You owe your mother respect but you owe your children protection and you owe your wife your support. Abdicating your responsibilities to your children because you won't have a difficult conversation with your mother is frankly pathetic. Serving up your children to a man you yourself find creepy claiming it'll be fine when you fear it won't be is beneath pathetic, it makes you his accomplice before the fact.

Don't be so fucking spineless in the face of potential harm to your children, just have the fucking conversation and tell your mother no, she has chosen to be a stranger to your children and you will not be leaving them unattended in the house of a stranger-to-them and her frankly creepy and controlling partner. Just do it. Like ripping off a plaster, just do it. And act like a father.

Everything about this screams potential abuse. You already think he’s seriously creepy, you already know he’s abusive to MIL (and what you describe is a terrifying level of domination, policing and control), and you already know he mysteriously has zero relationship with his own children and grandchildren. And now - all of a sudden, completely out of the blue, just as your child reaches toddler age - there’s a suggestion she should be spending time alone with them in their home? Fuck no! Not in a million years.

Your only responsibility in this situation is to protect your child, not to prioritise your MIL’s feelings. I’d be amazed if this has come from her in any case, because how is a woman who’s not allowed to leave her own home suddenly granted enough autonomy to start throwing out invitations to play happy families with a child she barely knows?

Your husband needs to step the fuck up and deal with this situation - what kind of father is so conflict avoidant and scared of ‘difficult conversations’ that he’d rather compromise the safety of his own child?

Absolutely trust your gut here.

I think my situation is extreme, but I had a bad feeling about both my MIL’s partner and my mum’s partner. For Dh and I both our mums became isolated after being with them a few years. All my mum’s friends got in touch and said how much they missed her since she got with her new partner.

It came out eventually that both MIL’s partner and my mum’s had previously gone to prison for child sexual offences. It suddenly made sense why they creeped us all out and why they were so keen on isolating their partners.

Unfortunately, we are both now largely NC with our families and they are both still in the same dysfunctional relationships. I don’t mean to imply the same is likely in your family. But I can’t say enough about trusting your instinct. Mine didn’t lead me wrong.

Your dh needs to put the safety of his dd above the whims of his dm. She has shown her judgement is skewed..

Please dont

@mindutopia oh wow, that is a very similar story! Terrifying how that turned out to be the case. It definitely seems like he’s lived a previous life before he met her and there is no evidence of any of it weirdly! I just posted this as some sort of back up for myself and to prove it definitely wasn’t just me as there’s no chance I’m leaving her with them. I just need to make it clear if she was ever to come to our house that the invite is for her alone

Having read this, put in a Sarah’s law request (it’s not the same). Both my stepdad and step-FIL who sexually abused a child in their families (one of them their own child), neither of them have a relationship with their adult children. This is a massive red flag.

Also you can submit a Clare’s law request on behalf of MIL. If there is a disclosure, they will do it directly to her and advise her how to safeguard herself and others. She may completely disregard any of it but worth a shot.

@mindutopia terrifying 😔 Do you know how far back either of these schemes go? I think if it’s anything with his own children it will be about 20 years+ ago so I’m wondering if that would still show up if I was to check it?

@WhereYouLeftIt Very well said.
@DCxx If your husband knew this man had children and grandchildren that he never sees, never mentioned it to you and still thinks it’s ok to hand your child over to him and MIL, he’s unbelievably, unbelievably foolish. It’s time for him to start being a real father and give you and your child priority over worrying about upsetting his mum.

I can see that you're already convinced but just to add to what everyone else is saying - no not ever, not in a thousand years. I think you should trust your gut about this man. But either way, I would not leave my child alone with someone who wasn't interested enough in my child to visit them or spend time with them in child's own home or with parents. It's not like she sees your daughter every week and is starting to think that now she's more independent it would be nice to spend time one on one. Rather, she has no relationship with your daughter at all. It's really weird to insist on alone time with a child you have no relationship with, unless there's some other agenda (or unless you're being talked into by someone with another agenda).

Children aren't toys to be passed around. Your job as mother and father aren't to make sure that access to your child is fair, or to balance everyone's feelings. Your job is to protect your child and do things that you think will be in their interest. Even creepiness aside, would your child enjoy going there without you? If they wouldn't, that's reason enough. Your main responsibility in your lives is to your daughter.

Honestly, I’d head on down to the local police station and speak to a police officer. I’d tell them everything. Include the fact that he is NC with his own family, including kids and grandkids, and that MIL has become increasingly and unnaturally isolated since he came along. Discuss the stalking, etc, and now the push to babysit AND your instinctive vibe that there is something wrong here. See what they think about both Claire’s and Sarah’s Law.

If she pushes it I would say “no, dd still a bit little and she might make strange and be unsettled with you and partner.”
Why risk it, nice to have a babysitter but not worth it if you think he could be malicious.

This with bells on

Always trust your gut - it’s our 6th sense in a way

i couldn’t care less whom I offended, I’d never leave my child with someone I had a creepy feeling about

A mother's instinct is a crucial part of child rearing and should never be ignored . Your job is to keep your daughter safe not to appease your MIL or her weird partner

I think it is sad that your MIL has not been rescued from this relationship when it is obvious to see that it could be really unpleasant for her behind closed doors. Dodgy men are controlling exactly because they don't want anyone asking awkward questions and that is why they keep someone isolated. Your gut is absolutely correct.

This. Can you persuade her on a walk or coffee somewhere and I’d just come out with it. I notice Fred doesn’t let you go anywhere alone, he’s even followed us in the car. You do realise this is control?
She might be relieved that someone has noticed it.

I agree that it’s sad MiL is not getting any help. It took me 23 years to get out of a controlling relationship. Please help her find a way out.

It doesn't matter if yr mil says you're stopping her seeing Yr dc. Your dc comes first and if your instincts are thats she might not be safe in this situation then keep her out of it. Just be honest and your dh should be supporting you. Either way, trust your gut. You'll never forgive yourself if something happens that could've been avoided.

I think it’s more odd that’s it’s come out of the blue. If she had been keen/excited about caring for her grandchild since you were pregnant or she was born it would be a bit different. He also seems extremely controlling. I don’t leave my daughter with lots of my family members not because I have any concerns about them but simply because we don’t see them often so she doesn’t know them well and I feel it’s a bit mean to leave with someone who is a stranger to her. I would absolutely be happy for any of them to have her if there was emergency though.

I would insist she is accompanied by either yourself or your partner.

Also, what’s stopping him sending MIL down to the shops without baby while she was there? No fucking way. Little ones have been SA in tiny houses under the noses of others since time immemorial. Whether anyone saw or suspected and just kept it quiet, I don’t know.
Teach your kid to parrot back that you keep no secrets in your family. (Taught by a policewoman in child protection.) ie, “What do you say if an adult says “do you want to play a really fun game? You can’t tell mum or dad… it’s our little secret.” You kid will automatically say “We don’t keep secrets in our family.” And hopefully that will help deter any creep from pushing their luck.

@Fraaahnces yeah the whole thing gives me shivers 😞 He’s going to speak to her today and make it clear that we are happy for her to see her more often but let her know what the options are and chances are she won’t take any of them

@TwoShades1 definitely.. she did start off overly enthusiastic when I was pregnant but after the newborn phase was over and she couldn’t show her off in the pram, it seemed to die down and she just didn’t even text to ask what she was up to or how she was. It’s as if someone has said something about the fact she doesn’t see her much and suddenly she’s came up with this 🤔

@DCxx - with particular attention to this part of your post "i think because you see so many things on here of parents not letting grandparents see their grandkids makes me feel pressured into letting her see her"

You have given her options and choices for her to see and spend time with your daughter. It is her choice, her decision to turn them down. If she is with her partner and cannot see a way out, it would be the opportune time to show her that she can leave him (as someone from an older generation might not be as comfortable at leaving someone they have a relationship with, they might be of the opinion that they made a promise to stick with that person through thick and thin and not see that they could leave) so you might be able to ever so gently make her see that she doesn't have to stay with him. Also, you don't have to even make the conversation about her. You could be discussing a friend of yours who got themselves into a relationship and now they feel they can't leave and what her thoughts on the situation might be.

Until such time as she can meet with you freely and without her stalker with her, there will be no leaving your daughter with her in her home. None whatsoever.

You are the mother here. Be the mother-bear here. Protect your little one.