DNephew says he’ll join the Army

[ItsCalledAConversation]

Hi all, advice and opinions please.
DNephew is 16, an affable lad, slow starter as in just made a group of friends after several years gaming/ hanging round the village with just one friend, due to sit GCSE’s later this spring.
He is doing nothing for this. Revision can’t really begin because he hasn’t finished a lot of coursework, doesn’t know/understand much of the content for most subjects. Exams and the results look like they’ll be a total wash-out.
My problem is, he says it “doesn’t matter” (exams mean nothing) and he will “just join the army” if he doesn’t get the results required for college. Personally this choice fills me with horror, but it’s his life. Realistically I’m looking for factual reasons to put him off this awful waste of his life.
The question I’m asking is this. What is it like joining the army as unqualified at 16? What will his cohort be like? What training/experiences are they put through? How bad is the bullying? How quickly are they shipped out as cannon fodder? Are there any routes to qualification/advancement at all? How long anre you contracted in for? Any experiences that you can share are much appreciated.

Recruits go through basic training and are then assessed and offered places in different areas, the more aptitude, qualifications and potential they have, the more and better offers they get. He wants to get a good place with training that will give him an interesting career and options when he leaves. Going in with no exams and no drive will not get him this.

Thanks for your response @Magenta82

So if he goes in with no exams and no drive, what will happen to him? Basic training (shudder) and then what?

What it's like depends on what you make of it (unhelpful I know!)

Easy answers:

"cannon fodder" - not legal to send anyone u18 to an active operational theatre

Many routes to qualifications: the military is the UK's largest single provider of adult education (in house, or via supported study at other establishments)

Advancement: yes, many opportunities for promotion, but it'll all depend on his performance

Length of service: minimum is normally 4 years, but u18s aren't held to that

Less easy answers:

His cohort: no-one has a crystal ball which will say what the others will be like. Some make the best friends of their lives, others don't

Bullying: variable. Officially it will be gripped hard if it occurs, but that won't necessarily be the case unfortunately (and what is seen as bullying might not be what others expect)

Training: rather depends on which bit he joins. Has he been to a Careers Office to talk about what roles he might be suitable for? Or chosen already what he would most like?

The army does provide routes for qualifications and personal advancement. My father came out in 1993 with various qualifications, especially the ability to drive absolutely any vehicle in any environment and under any conditions.

From what I recall, he transitioned well to civilian life after 11 Operation Banner tours, Operation Granby and British Army Of The Rhine. So, he saw a lot of action and didn't did up with PTSD or anything like that.

The Army does have a lot to offer and, of course there are serious drawbacks to consider. But it is not a singularly awful experience for every soldier as a lot depends on personality.

The Royal Logistic Corps, for example, will give you civilian transferable skills. All I know who were in the RCT/RLC have done well after service.

This is fascinating and helpful. It literally gives me a fear in the pit of my stomach, one of the brightest girls in our year was killed in Iraq three years after she joined. such an obscene waste. That’s all I can see.

It’s helpful to know there is some kind of progress on offer and I didn’t know about the higher education thing.

Can I ask when you say “depends on personality” what do you mean? What kind of personality does well? Personality wise he’s shy, kind, he is the opposite of brash, domineering, wouldn’t bully a fly. He’s going to end up stuck to the bottom on some drill-sergeant’s shoe isn’t he?

Can I also ask what’s meant by ”what would be seen as bullying might not be what others expect”? What constitutes bullying in the army then? I know a lot of recruits were shot at deepcut 😢

A lot of people enjoy basic training and learn alot, especially about themselves. For the right kind of person the military is really positive.

Dp got quite a few qualifications, including GCSE maths and English, as well as other training and skills. He is glad he joined, but would council others to really research what they are doing. Understand the options and the culture. He made mistakes, like picking a Northern regiment as a southerner, they thought he was posh and bullied him. If he had the choice again he would have picked something that would have taught him a trade.

I'm ex-military. What always amazes me is this attitude 'i'll just join the army'

Lots of young people fail selection- mainly due to fitness. Or they join not understanding that a Basic Fitness Test is exactly as it says BASIC. What is his fitness levels like - if he can't comfortably run 3 miles without stopping he is going to get a bit of a shock. Once training starts they will expect a greater fitness level.

As for bullying - i've come across lots of recruits/adults who see the basic training instructors as being bullies. This isn't the case - its very dificult to train the modern day young person to think as a team and not be so self-entitled. As a result some of the training techniques can appear harsh to civillians.

Potential recruits used to complete entrance tests that would identify the trades that they would be most suitable for. When i joined i sat the tests pre-entry in the careers office and also at the selection centre. When i did the first test all my scores were high - on the second sitting my english score was too low for the role i wanted. However - as i had english o level i was allowed to carry on. So he may think exams mean nothing - but they may give him the ability to have a greater choice in the role he wants.

He needs to understand that the Army doesn't want wasters or people who can't be bothered to apply themselves. The army prides itself on being professional for a reason. If he isnt fully committed he won't hack it and he will soon be found out.

At 16 he will go to Harrogate

www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/our-schools-and-colleges/afc-harrogate/

Thanks so much for your responses. See, it’s this attitude I’m terrified of, “As a result some of the training techniques can appear harsh to civillians”

Civilians = humans. What harsh training techniques are we talking about here?

It sounds like aptitude and exams are important even once in (if you pass the test).

General basic fitness is ok. This lad is a tall, skinny 16 year old and does a sport weekly. We did a “marathon” walk a couple of years ago as a family and he ducked out about 7 miles in because his boots were hurting his feet….

My advice would be to encourage him to get his fitness up and look into what roles he might be interested in persuing.

going against this will likely be counter productive and unhelpful.

Thank you for that link @PuttingDownRoots that’s so useful to know. It’s such a minefield (literally!) for normal humans - so much prior knowledge is required to even understand the first sentence (wtf is the difference between a non-commission officer and a warrant officer, and why would i care? what is a company, how is it different from a platoon or a corps!?). It seems like you need to already be in the Army to understand all this!

Totally @KneeQuestion it seems he’s fixed on this route (and certainly will be when he fails all his exams) so I want to know how we can help make it the least bad for him as possible.

The army is able to be very selective as they have so many applicants, they want very fit motivated young people who have something to offer. Also having certain medical or mental health conditions would mean an automatic refusal.

There was a thread in a similar topic a couple of days ago.

As a parent we’d all be worried about our loved ones in an active service role, but realistically he seems neither academically very able and/or very motivated to change that trajectory so this might be the making of him in terms of training and opportunities. To even get on a tradespersons apprenticeship requires maths/English etc.

Think you are doing the right thing helping him research and perhaps reframe your perspective to being really proud what he might achieve rather than some of the language you’re using.

No medical or mental hurdles afaik, but he’s definitely not ultra fit and dedicated. Are you sure you really need to be that on it just to join up? Our perception in the family is that the Army will always take young people as they want the bums on seats. Is that not the case?

Also has he been in the Army Cadets that would show eagerness to join the army, and might give him an idea what the reality would be.

Well for a start I’d say expect to be shouted at, given extremely stern bollockings if something isn’t up to scratch, be told your useless, etc.

you just don’t take it to heart. But yeah when I was in the TA there was a fair bit of stern shouting. Sometimes at individuals, sometimes at the group. Can’t say I was bothered at the time. Now in a non military career if my boss spoke to me like that I’d be on the phone to HR. 😁. But it’s effective and normally it’s fair, ie they don’t shout at individuals for the sake of it.

i would keep out of it. It’s his life and it can be a great career for many. You do seem a bit anti military. I’m not sure the recruits at Deepcut were shot. Officially I think it was suicide. If he doesn’t like it he can leave.

Non commissioned officer... corporal or sergeant
Warrent Officer... extremely senior sergeant.. like the Regimental Sergeant Major for example.
Commissioned officer... Lieutenant, Captain etc.

Platoon... the 30iish people who are your "family" in the army
Company... a group of Platoons
Regiment... a group of Companies etc

The Army basically has its own language. I've been in the military community for 18 years nearly and still think DH is talking gobbledygook half the time!!

Absolutely not the case

It sounds like you're pushing your own agenda on him.

Nope, no cadets. This isn’t a lifelong wish to join, this is catching the dregs.

I know even a trade apprenticeship requires maths and English! We have told him this til we are blue in the face. He just says he’ll join the army then.

You need to pass the fitness test. I’ve also known people who passed the fitness test not be selected. So absolutely not bums on seats. A neighbour’s son was recently rejected, told to go away and try again in a year or so.

Hi - an example of 'harsh' .

In training they share rooms. There is always someone who doesnt get up on time/oversleeps. Its common, at the beginning, for the recruits to just think of themselves and not think as a team. They will get themselves ready and leave their'mate' to sleep in.

They think their 'mate' will get in trouble and not them, they think it will make the one who has overslept look bad and they will appear as the perfect recruit.

What actually happens is that the whole room will be punished, they haven't displayed teamwork. Teamwork is the key to the militarys proffesionalism.

A lot of times people don't see why the whole team is punished and not just the one who has overslept. You have to be able to trust your fellow soldiers, you have to think as a team.

That’s horrific and shocking! “Punished”?! How?
There is no WAY I’d take a pasting for the stranger in the bed next to me sleeping in.

Not army but one of my sons always wanted to join the navy, he attended the Sea Cadets for many years had an interest in engineering and got basic GCSE’s. He wears glasses that ruled him out, at least until he was older and had laser eye surgery, he also has ADHD which definitely ruled him out as long as he was on medication.