DNephew says he’ll join the Army

[ItsCalledAConversation]

Hi all, advice and opinions please.
DNephew is 16, an affable lad, slow starter as in just made a group of friends after several years gaming/ hanging round the village with just one friend, due to sit GCSE’s later this spring.
He is doing nothing for this. Revision can’t really begin because he hasn’t finished a lot of coursework, doesn’t know/understand much of the content for most subjects. Exams and the results look like they’ll be a total wash-out.
My problem is, he says it “doesn’t matter” (exams mean nothing) and he will “just join the army” if he doesn’t get the results required for college. Personally this choice fills me with horror, but it’s his life. Realistically I’m looking for factual reasons to put him off this awful waste of his life.
The question I’m asking is this. What is it like joining the army as unqualified at 16? What will his cohort be like? What training/experiences are they put through? How bad is the bullying? How quickly are they shipped out as cannon fodder? Are there any routes to qualification/advancement at all? How long anre you contracted in for? Any experiences that you can share are much appreciated.

Interesting that you went straight from punished to taking a pasting.
In the military you have to be able to trust the person next to you to do their part so that you can do yours. We succeed or fail as a team and that sense of team is instilled right from day one.
He won't just stroll in off of the street and be snapped up. He will have to pass physical and aptitude test before he gets anywhere.

It depends what trade he joins, what his postings are etc as to the experience.

There are wonderful training opportunities for those who want them, even people with very low GCSEs can join some interesting trades that will set them up when they leave as well. There's much more of a mix of personalities than there used to be, especially as the variety of job roles on offer has widened.

The army also does a lot more than just fight (especially at the moment as we aren't in conflict). They provide humanitarian aid ie in turkey currently; help train allies; build infrastructure in the developing world; provide assistance back home when needed etc.

Yes basic training is challenging and there are rigid rules but for good reason. It does become less regimented (albeit of course with many rules still in place) once out of training.

Its ignorant tbh to assume just cannon fodder with no opportunities.

in a war zone you have to trust your colleagues, you have to trust that they will cover your back. If you cant trust a fellow recruit to help get you out of bed on time, then what the hell would happen in a crisis.

Punishment - room inspection, press-ups whatever

If you think he'll find this shocking then he really isnt cut out for the military. I strongly suggest you watch Channel 5 - Raw Recruits - Squaddies at 16

Well you’re not in the army are you? If you are, then you’d take the pasting and learn the lesson that you’re a team

I think it would be helpful for your nephew to speak to someone directly about being in the army. With the best will in the world, I’m not sure his aunt posting on mumsnet will get the answers he needs 🙂

OP - you seem very uninformed about the military in general! I believe French Foreign Legion was the worst! But surely you've seen films like Private Benjamin (Goldie Hawn)??

Sounds like you have a hated for the army. He will definitely not just walk into the army and that’s it. He has to show commitment, dedication….funnily enough they don’t just take anyone for the sake of it. You seem pretty ignorant. Being a soldier is nothing to look down upon. These are men and women fighting and protecting our country. Civilians = humans is also ignorant….they are trained to think, act, be different. There is nothing to compare being a solider to and see people not in the forces as civilians. I think he, and also you, need to educate yourselves a little bit more on the army.

OP, the language that you use clearly shows that you are not a fan of the army. It might be worth actually taking a look at what they do, and the amazing opportunities that they can offer. As with any job it's not for everyone but it can also be a fantastic way to learn skills, see the world and do a whole range of things.

My Son is an RAF cadet and is very keen to join the air force after finishing his higher education - we are 100% supportive of this if it's what he chooses.

Massive leap there..

Ah...OK....

I think @Seagullslanding has made some good points..

The early stages of "Basic" at any level (non-commissioned or commissioned) used to be very much about learning to work in/work as/lead a team.

One member of the team slopes shoulders or doesn't pull their weight then it was fairly usual for the whole team to get sanctioned.....

Not sure I'd describe it "horrific" or "shocking" but maybe that's something for the prospective recruit to be aware.

OP you sound incredibly dramatic. Words like shudder/horrific/shocking. Really?

The army isn’t for everyone and he needs to do some proper research before he makes a decision. However, for people who want to make the most of it and are willing to commit then joining the armed forces can be a great opportunity.

Unfortunately “I have nothing to offer, so will come work for you” is about as likely a pass to employment and training courses within the armed forces as it is with any employer. (And as his shiny new way of shutting down criticism and nagging from concerned relatives, it’s probably even less effective).
When I signed up (at 15, so I’m a bit out of date now) it was drummed into us that there were 14 applicants for every place within our cohort, and we were expected to display the necessary skills and enthusiasm - or stop wasting everyone’s time. It’s very much, we’re paying you a wage, providing a shedload of (often insanely) expensive equipment for you to use, now show us why!
If he’s genuinely serious about this, it could be the making of him though. I signed up with a trade in mind, and the technical corps - so Engineers, logistics, REME (electrical and mechanical engineers) are where he is most likely to A learn a trade, and B stick with the army as a career. Infantry regiments can be less academically choosy, but obviously more physically demanding (from day 1) and less likely to be his ‘until retirement’ plan. Don’t ignore the cavalry - riding and mechanics, or marines (small boats and diving). The technical corps are looking for intelligent and motivated soldiers, though, so grades may count more than you’d both hope. The more thought he puts into choosing where to apply the better - recruiting offices are looking for people who’ve thought this through, and see a career not an expensive gap 4year experience! Get him in for an initial chat right away, it could either nip this in the bud, or set him up well - AND I’d expect them to tell him “revise, boyo!”.
Bullying… SO cohort dependant. My fabulous experience leans me towards, if he’s affable and keen, chances are he’ll be ok. A gobby or lazy lad with low self motivation or confidence would struggle. Army life is communal, and drill sergeants are trying to get themselves the best quality colleagues for a frequently difficult and dangerous job. Teamwork is everything. You get put into teams and expected to pull together. Letting down your team is generally THE sin, although if you work hard and still don’t achieve, meh, there’s extra pt and training for that.
Basic training is for all soldiers, so they can, well, soldier! Get fit, look after themselves (clean, cook, camp) map read, shoot, first aid, swim etc. Fitness to start with makes it SO much easier. His fitness will be expected to improve, but everything is easier if you’re not constantly exhausted and struggling to keep up, so why make life difficult? They’re pushed to see who really wants to be there and who thought it was the easy option.
Passing out gets you through to your Corps/regiment training. Skills, trades, more drill and polishing for the cavalry and infantry, specialist weapons and equipment training. The kit can be impressive and bloody good fun and they’re let loose on it at a point where civilians are often still at school. THEN you’re to on your job.

You're being very dramatic op.
My Dad and brother both did 22 years in the Army. My Dad was a Para my brother joined the Engineers. My Dad had left school at 14 and the Army was the making of him, he was an extremely good soldier.
My Brother left with a lot of qualifications, once your time to leave is coming up the Army pays and puts you through any exams that you want. He has an extremely good job and Army pension.
My nephew joined up too, he was in the cadets and trained for a year before joining. You can't just rock up and expect to be taken.

Why does he assume the Army will take him? They are not a rehabilitation centre for lazy teens or lazy people of any age.

I think first of all he needs to realise that the Armed Forces aren't a drop-out centre for lazy teens. Going into the military can be an amazing opportunity for the less academically able - they'll learn a trade, acquire qualifications and experience, see the world and make lifelong friends.

However they don't just take any old unmotivated, disincentivised school leaver. They're still going to want to see drive, determination and a positive attitude. He won't make it past the application stage if he doesn't wise up.

I think you have a very skewed view of the armed forces. Maybe you're not the best person to advise your nephew and should, instead, suggest he speaks to his school careers officer or an actual milutary recruitment officer.

Sounds like he is not very academic and not confident that he will be able to revise hard enough to pass his exams, so when people say what if you don't pass he has to come up with some kind of answer. In a way its good he has this positive response to a bad scenario rather than feeling anxious.

Rather than putting pressure on him to work harder on his exams, being supportive of him not really getting on well with academic subjects and coming up with some good alternatives that would really suit him if he doesn't pass, would not leave him feeling pushed into finding his own instant solution of The Army. If he really likes the idea of it that's fine but he doesn't have to do it as a last resort. There are college courses he could do or an apprenticeship.

This.

I don't know your nephew OP but he sounds like a lot of teenage boys I do/ have known, who think the army is the easy option and then have a nasty wake up call when either the army don't want them, or they go and have an awful time there.

I think a starting point is for you and/ or his parents to actually look into it with him, look at what it involves, watch some youtube videos, make some phone calls to the army careers centre, even better try to get him to speak to someone who has lived experience.

If it's still something he wants to do then great - but he has to be motivated and commited to it, as you do with any career option.

There is no career option for someone who just can't be bothered.

He won't get very far without GCSEs, you have to have GCSEs or "functional skills" to get promoted (to Corporal I think?) so he will need to do additional qualifications or resit them in the army to progress, but they will support him and fund it so it's no bad thing. If he wants to progress of course.

He'll find the army are a bit pickier and less casual than he imagines, but if he gets in it might do him a world of good.

They aren't a stranger, they are part of your team. You need to be able to trust them to save your life, and vice versa.

No-one gets a 'pasting' - more likely given a less enjoyable task (cleaning etc) or withdrawal of privileges.

The armed forces are one of the best training providers in the world. Your nephew will be lucky if he gets to join. No-one needs 'bums on seats' in modern warfare.

You’ve all given sound advice, thank you very much. Absolutely right I have a sort of blind spot where army/armed forces are concerned, I’m an old Quaker at heart.

We have told him this til we are blue in the face.

I think there you have your answer why he is sticking in his heels. A 15/16yo isn't particularly going to take well to his parents going on at him. Add in Auntie, and possibly other relatives, too and he's going to think that he wants to get as far away as possible from this nagging lot and the army is the way to do it.

Back off. Leave it to his parents to talk to him.

The stranger in the bed next to you is part of your team and could be the difference between life and death. You need to be able to trust and rely on your team. It's not like working in Tesco and your queue is longer because your colleague slept in.

You seem to be most ill informed and I'd strongly advise you keep your beak out, your advice sounds extremely counterproductive. They won't take your lazy nephew anyway.

I joined at 16, fresh out of school and did my initial training at the very same establishment linked above.
As others have said: the fitness standards are a shock to the system, for everyone, even if they are fit to begin with. Tabbing 8 miles with a third of my body weight on my back, plus weapon and water was like nothing I’d ever felt - and I was a competitive gymnast, so generally fitter and stronger than the average teenage girl!
The first 6 weeks are the worst. It’s the “shock of capture” phase. You are stripped back to the bare bones of humanity, so you can be rebuilt as a soldier not a civilian. It’s an entirely different mentality. Life is no longer about you, and your wants and needs. It’s about the team. Your platoon become your family. One fucks up, you all fuck up, and you will all bear the punishment. On arrival, all our civilian clothes and personal effects were placed in the tiny “civilian locker” next to our big double door military locker, locked with a padlock, the keys confiscated. We were allowed our basic toiletries, a hairbrush, stationary and plain black civilian underwear and sports bras. Other than that, it was issued kit only. Our phones were taken and returned to us for half an hour in the evening to call home if it was deemed that we’d earned the privilege. Letters from home were given to us with no interference, but any parcels were opened, and any contraband comfort items removed before they were given to us.
Days were very long - a normal working day, we’d be up at 5:30am and often wouldn’t be knocking off until 8pm, and by that point we were so knackered we would just shower and sleep.
As for bullying - as an outsider, I can see that training methods look brutal. And they are. That’s the point. It pushes you to breaking point both physically and mentally. It is the epitome of “only the strong survive”. It’s not a normal workplace. One weak link breaks the chain. So the weak links are weeded out through physical and mental pain. It is what it is.
When I rocked up, I didn’t have two pennies to rub together and my gcse results were an embarrassment. Within a month, I had a pay check (I’d never had that much money before!) and had started on my way to resist my maths and English GCSEs and an IT apprenticeship. Without the army, I highly doubt I’d have gained those qualifications.
Also when I say your platoon become your family, I mean it. 12 years later, some of those guys and girls are still my closest friends. I’m godparent to some of their children, as are they to mine.
Joining up was definitely the best decision I could have made for myself at the time. 4 years in, and serious injury put a prompt end to my career, but I don’t regret any of it for a minute.

@Ringmaster27 thank you so much for sharing your story, it’s incredible and really made me think. Of course I know none of these details, hence asking. As pp has said yes I am ill informed about life in the forces, but I only want what’s best for DN and I was worried an army life wouldn’t be the best. Yours and others examples have shown me a glimpse of what this kind of training can be and mean to a young person without a lot of other options, I’m very grateful to you and others on the thread for that.

@CarrieSmisher your response was very heartless, you have no idea what’s going on in the family at present that means his parents have a little less attention on him than usual. I hope he’ll grow up to be glad that other family members stepped in to support him when parents couldn’t. I came on this thread fully aware my perspective could hamper DN’s efforts and intentions, and open minded to learn. Glad all posters on this thread haven’t been like you.