Those with lots of friends - are you quite tolerant of their character flaws?

[RangSoo]

I used to have no self esteem and let people walk all over me, I’d stay friends with people no matter what they did to me. As I got older and more independent my sense of self worth increased massively and I cut all the bad apples off completely but wasn’t left with many friends after that. I’ve made a few new friends in recent years but the friendships haven’t gone very far because I won’t tolerate bad behaviour at all. Things like compulsive lying, rude behaviour, two facedness, overzealousness, even just annoying personality traits like talking over everyone else and being really flaky.

I’ve been observing big groups of friends on the train or when out and about recently and I’ve noticed that most of the women in these groups just ignore bad behaviours, or are polite even when you can tell they don’t like another person in the group. I’m left wondering if my expectations are too high, if maybe there’s a certain level of not-so-fab behaviour that most people will tolerate without disrespecting themselves?

I think maybe it’s the friends you choose, or maybe you are hypercritical?
I’ve never randomly observed groups of people and thought their behaviour was bad. Certainly not to the extent that you seem to have noticed it. Mostly I just see people enjoying each other’s company tbh. I would say that most people are polite though, even if they aren’t too keen on each other. To not be would make you the rude person surely?

I won’t tolerate someone treating me badly but I accept that everyone has annoying traits and the ones I stay friends with are people whose good parts outweigh their annoying traits. I know I have annoying traits too that my friends accept.

Interesting OP! I agree with the first three traits being non negotiable. What do you mean by over zealousness in friendships? If I wasn’t friends with people who interrupted and talked over me I would lose a lot of fantastic friends. And maybe myself🙄though try to be aware and not do it.

Basically don’t think of myself as perfect and have lots of annoying traits probably, but am good at the things I deem important: loving kindness, loyalty, fun, hospitable, loads going on to share together. I have lots of old and newer friends and find it easy to make friends so probably am fairly tolerant on irritating traits but definitely not in the core values.

It’s a recent thing, the observing groups. I’m definitely not a people watcher usually! It’s just been on my mind a lot so really drawing my attention. I’m polite to people but if I’m not a fan then I won’t pretend to be excited about their life or that I want to hang out, I’ll just make polite excuses and avoid them where I can.

Many of my friends have annoying traits, but those traits are outweighed by the positive.

I mean it’s odd to notice so much negativity/bad behaviour about random people interacting with their friends.

I mainly mean very extreme political views/conspiracy theorists who can’t manage a conversation without shoving ‘vaccines are poison!’ down everyone’s throat.

I think this is such a good reply and explains a lot, thank you. I probably am getting mild character flaws confused with core values. I think I’ve had to be a bit extreme and OTT while learning to look out for myself, but now I’m ready to relax a bit and don’t want to be walked all over or be ‘fake’ but I definitely need to start being more tolerant now.

Yes extreme intolerant views forced on me would definitely be a no no too. Sounds good; you needed better boundaries now can open up a bit more. Good luck in finding some great friends who are your sort, appreciate you and are equally give/take in conversation etc. 😀

I try to remember that I have flaws and would those around me to regard those kindly, so I tend to do likewise. I know that sometimes someone will let you down too badly, go too far and so on, but mistly people mean well and want to treat others well. IME.

Many of my friendships go back to school days (we are all in our 60s now) and I often think to myself that if I met some of these women now we probably wouldn't be friends as we have grown in totally different directions but we have a huge amount of 'shared' history which is very comforting in many ways. One of my 'closest' friends made a comment to me recently that I really found quite shocking; I felt unreasonably 'hurt' that she could have such an opposite view to me .. it wasn't racist or homophobic or anything like that but I was still quite unnerved about her opinion.
But overall I think I am fairly tolerant... I have a wide circle of friends from various 'parts' of my life and I recognise that people bring different qualities to friendship ... and of course I am by no means perfect myself.

Would you mind sharing any of the more annoying traits that you tolerate? I still struggle a bit with the difference between what’s rude/disrespectful behaviour and what’s just a personality quirk, eg the difference between a pushy entitled person and a person with good intentions but a naturally dominant personality.

I'm inclined to agree with the first reply.

Genuinely the things you describe really aren't things that come up in friendships (and, in MN terms I am old, and I have friendship groups from all sorts of origins).

I mean, surely if someone is squeezing conspiracy theories into every other sentence, you'd have spotted that when you first met them, and wouldn't have developed the relationship to the point of friendship.
Aren't we all friends with people who - broadly speaking - have the same sorts of values as ourselves ?

I've never "cut off" a friend in my life.
There's been lots of people I have met that aren't necessarily on the same wavelength as me so I've never become friends with them in the first place.

Are you neurodivergent OP? You seem to want to apply a set of rules and are quite rigid in your thinking.

I tend to be quite harsh and a result don't have many friends but I can't help it. For example a friend said how disgusting it was a baby of a friend of hers was still breastfeeding at the age of 2 years old. I breastfed my youngest until the age of 3 and it really boils my poss when people who've never breastfed think that breastfeeding a toddler is disgusting. I'm seriously considering not seeing her anymore.

Your list of traits, lying and being two faced I would struggle with however I have friends with the following traits who I like and am happily friends with...

• talking over people
• swearing
• quite self centred eg often brings conversation back to them
• loud/brash
• unreliable (e.g will not always turn up)
• gossipy

I'm sure some of my friends think I'm annoying. I am a bit mindful about how much time I spend with some people or what I share with them. I guess we often have shared ties eg went to school, uni together or work together. We generally have similar political views etc.

(I'm not saying I have lots of friends but I think I tend towards being in quite big groups rather than really close individual friend relationships)

Yes because I may have some flaws myself I have never met someone who doesn't

I still struggle a bit with the difference between what’s rude/disrespectful behaviour and what’s just a personality quirk, eg the difference between a pushy entitled person and a person with good intentions but a naturally dominant personality.

I would say all of that is down to whether you like the person or not

A person you like asking questions about you = 'friendly' / 'interested in me' / taking the time to find out more about me'
A person you don't like, asking the same questions = nosey

A person you like sorting something out to help you = helpful / kind
If you don't like them, same action = interfering

and so on and so on.

@NotABeliever this would really upset me too, as someone who also breastfed into toddler hood. I have a friend who sometimes likes to be a bit dramatic for effect and once made a point of saying some similar things. Did you say anything to her at the time?

Are you perfect all of the time or do you expect the odd flaw to be overlooked occasionally? I have never tolerated trampling of my boundaries, but everyone can be a bit annoying at times - I certainly wouldn't cut out a good friend for it

I wouldn't have any friends if I wasn't tolerant of their flaws, and them of mine

Who are these perfect people you are expecting to meet?

Anyway, the 'flaws' you see in other people, the things that really grate you, they tend to be things within you that you have not become conscious of. For example, I used to be really grated by showy off types of people, until I realised that I had been brought up in a 'never show off, ever' family and to brag was one of the worst things you could ever do. And people who did have what is probably just a decent level of confidence and ability to talk about their strengths, it wasn't anything to do with them, it was me - I was actually irritated (and resentful) because I couldn't show off, ever, and I needed to find that part of me that wasn't scared to 'show off' a little, or at least not be so humble that it means you get passed over for things etc. These people I 'hated' were never the problem, it was me and the part of me that I never was allowed to bring forward. The things we 'hate' in others are actually a lovely clue about ourselves and parts of us we keep hidden and probably need to integrate.

The 'talking over people' comment might be a good example of this - do you in your heart wish you were more assertive in conversation?

Other stuff is just personality differences - I am messy, many of my friends are super tidy. I am a gobshite extravert, many of my friends are introverts. That's the lovely yin and yang of life!

Good point

I think that’s exactly my problem, because my self esteem was so low (really abusive childhood) I became friends with the type of people who most would have the sense not to get involved with in the first place. These ‘friends’ would usually also be very codependent and want me to be with them all the time, throwing strops if I hung out with anybody they didn’t approve of. One of them even fractured my jaw unprovoked and blamed it on being drunk, which I thought was normal as I’d grown up with that type of thing.

I’ve had therapy and I’m doing really well, but now that I’ve learnt to spot red flags I need to calm down and stop seeing them everywhere😅

I have had similar conversations with my sister, neither of us have big groups of friends but we grew up with a mum that would encourage us to end friendships easily “x was mean to you, right don’t speak to her ever again and she won’t be welcome in this house” our mum has very few friends herself and doesn’t speak to her family either.

I moved away for uni and met a girl that had a huge circle of friends. As we lived together we made a pile of mutual friends. I’m not in contact with any of them now as over the years I cut them off deliberately or we drifted and I didn’t maintain it. My housemate still has a lot of those friends as she is far far more tolerant of their behaviour.

I have found myself wondering who was right and I think it’s probably best to be somewhere in between. I miss out on some friendships, but she gets hurt and moans about people acting badly.

It depends.

I have a friend who I have known for years. He has his moments of ignorance, particularly around "immigrants" and domestic abuse, he has also been known to be racist.

However, I always call him out on it. For example once he said something about mixed race kids, I asked him if he would say that to my DD's face (she is half white british, half afro-carribbean) and he said no. When I asked him why, he admitted that it wouldnt be right and I said that if it isnt right to say it to a persons face, its not ok to say it when a POC is not around. I also gave him an education into domestic abuse. He knew my ex was abusive but tried to imply it was partly my fault for not leaving sooner. I explained the realities of "Scared to stay but too terrified to leave" and he has come to understand a lot better. His DD has been very mentally ill over the years and he is very defensive over anyone taking the piss out of mental illness or calling people "snowflakes" etc, and is very supportive of me and my ED. He is in his 70's and I think very much a product of his generation but is happy to learn, as he did with his DD. He has often said that he didnt understand what MH issues are really like until his DD developed her illness.

If another person was like that and refused to accept that their views are offensive and be open to learning from others experiences, then I would absolutely would, and have, cut them off.