Those with lots of friends - are you quite tolerant of their character flaws?

[RangSoo]

I used to have no self esteem and let people walk all over me, I’d stay friends with people no matter what they did to me. As I got older and more independent my sense of self worth increased massively and I cut all the bad apples off completely but wasn’t left with many friends after that. I’ve made a few new friends in recent years but the friendships haven’t gone very far because I won’t tolerate bad behaviour at all. Things like compulsive lying, rude behaviour, two facedness, overzealousness, even just annoying personality traits like talking over everyone else and being really flaky.

I’ve been observing big groups of friends on the train or when out and about recently and I’ve noticed that most of the women in these groups just ignore bad behaviours, or are polite even when you can tell they don’t like another person in the group. I’m left wondering if my expectations are too high, if maybe there’s a certain level of not-so-fab behaviour that most people will tolerate without disrespecting themselves?

Yes we all have flaws.

Yes I explained they are still little at the age of 2 or 3 and that there is nothing remotely sexual about breastfeeding but I am still hurt and don't really know if I want to see her again.

This is such an interesting post, OP

We all have flaws. Personally so long as those flaws do not affect anyone else, then I’ll accept them. If it’s something medical and uncontrollable like Tourette’s that’s acceptable too.
What isn’t acceptable is someone lying about me or too me, or deliberately being cruel/ bullying/hurting someone or something. That’s non negotiable.
I am flexible on helping people - much stricter about it since covid, but my rule is you need to be willing to try and help yourself and be seen to help others in return - ‘pass it on’ rather than return the favour.
I never ask any favours of anyone else. Either do it myself or pay a professional.

Thanks, it was actually mumsnet that got me thinking about it because you read so many posts about friendship group dramas. I thought the OP’s were doing themselves dirty putting up with it all but then realised that’s probably why I don’t have many friends!

Yes. I have a friend who loses every friend because she's quite opinionated and talks about money a lot. She has lots of good points too and I never get offended by her manner, whereas others have.
I don't hold grudges and some friends I avoid talking about certain topics.
Most people have flaws but also positives too.

I would have no friends, zero, if I wasn’t tolerant. But I am not exactly Grade A friendship material myself. So I bump along at the bottom and try hard not to brood about other people’s flaws but just accept them as they are.

People who smell or have bad breath are a lot harder for me to get on with than people who have strong opposing views.

Yes, I think you're right about this OP. I've got less tolerant as I've got older, but this means fewer friends!

In long, close friendships, of course they (and I!) have some irritating traits, which might come out more at certain times, but overall the positives need to outweigh the negatives. In larger friend groups, you can't exclude the people you're not keen on, so if you want the friend group you have to put up with those people. Again it's a trade off, but this time based on the group as a whole.

The UK is so weird about breastfeeding, I’d say it’s actually looked down on to feed past the age of one which is crazy.

The things we 'hate' in others are actually a lovely clue about ourselves and parts of us we keep hidden and probably need to integrate.

this is brilliant @hamstersarse I needed to be reminded of that, tonight.

Are friends not just people that you have an affinity with? Sounds like yo are trying project your own insecurities/ traits onto others here...

There is another way to view this - the trauma that most/all/some of us carry, has been caused by the very traits we have come to despise. As those were the traits exhibited by our abusers.
There is a view that a normal/sane/average human being has not yet been studied as no one alive has as yet been discovered to be completely unharmed by life events.

I know what my friends flaws are, but I love them anyway. Nobody is perfect, including me. I'm sure I have some annoying flaws too. Obviously it depends what those flaws are. One friend is always late, another is a bit vain, another is a bit showy etc but they're all lovely people.

Haven't read the full thread, but some 'traits' are dealbreakers (prejudices, illegal activity, overt nastiness) and some I can live with.

I've a friend as part of a group that's becoming more obviously selfish as we age, but in other ways she's lovely. Whatever. Another one is forgetful and always late to things. I can live with it, she's a lot of fun. I'm sure there are things about me that grate on them but I hope my good bits make up for it.

Oddly one friend and I have found a new level of friendship through a disagreement we had around my wedding. We both felt we were 'right' at the time, but ultimately we came to respect each other's decision and didn't let it come between us. We've been all the closer for it since.

@RangSoo I feel like I’m about to pull apart my friends but I suppose it’s about how their annoying traits make me feel that means that I accept them. One of my friends is quite flaky but I know it’s about issues in her own life and not about me, and I know I can also be that way when things are hard. I can manage someone being a bit self centred because I know if I need them they are there. A friend I have can be quite pushy but I know it comes from a good place of wanting the best for everyone whereas a friend I had in the past was like it but it came from a more selfish place of wanting the best for herself

I've got lots of friends and some of them annoy me a fair bit but I figure I probably annoy them too so that's just fine!

I found this quite sad to read because I struggle to hang on to friends. ND and for lots of reasons I find it hard. I have lots of acquaintances but very few people that I could ring up and go out with. I have found this really hard since splitting from my ex.

I get used to the things that annoy me about friends - we’re all human - and then try to recognise it as that when it comes up. It takes an awful lot for me to stop seeing people - i.e. the obvious things like stealing, abuse, and sometimes being bitchy to me if it happens often.

With that in mind I’m seeing a ‘frenemy’ tonight who often throws out barbs at me - I’ll see how it goes this evening!

Yes I am tolerant. I wouldn’t let myself be ‘walked over’ (eg repeatedly stood up, outright nastiness, begged for favours and money constantly) but I don’t care if they forget my birthday, or don’t reply to a text for a week. I just choose people I enjoy being around, I don’t get too wrapped up in expecting everything to be exactly reciprocal like a lot on here do. Nor do I need them to ‘support’ me constantly through the normal pitfalls of adult life.

A lot of people do think this. I hate to say it but it’s only MN that breastfeeding to 3 or even 4 is seen as normal, it just isn’t to the public in general. I will admit to finding it ‘odd’ past the age of about 2, but I wouldn’t say it to anyone. I wouldn’t ditch a friend over an offhand comment like that tbh.

I have quite a lot of friends, and yes I do think I am quite tolerant to their flaws. Basically I don't need them to be perfect (or anywhere close) as long as they "bring something to the table", ie I enjoy spending time with them and can overlook their flaws. I have my own flaws too of course!

Eg I have one friend who is quite vain and really into her appearance, but she's also really funny. And another who is fairly self centred, but she's also interesting and generous. And another who is flaky and unreliable, but she's lovely when we do manage to meet up.

I wouldn't cut any of them out of my life as the positives outweigh the negatives overall.

I'm definitely not a pushover though, and wouldn't be friends with someone who put me down or something like that.

It’s a fine balance. During the Covid crisis I became rather intolerant of certain character traits in friends. Like if they didn’t show much concern for my mental health when I was showing concern for theirs. It was a very trying time for my main friendship group and we almost fell apart completely.

We are slowly rebuilding trust, in my opinion. I had a word with myself about expecting too much from people. Tbh I do still think slightly less of those who were ultra self absorbed in that time. But also I try not to dwell on it because ultimately I do want friends so have to remind myself to be tolerant.

What would you say to the fact that you haven't
Heard from someone you considered a good friend for 3 or four months? Someone who knew you were going through an awful time? I spent most of the last few months alone and I've lost my confidence and trust in people. Clearly I am not someone people want to hang out with.

@DatingDisaster23 have you contacted them (more than once) and they haven't replied? If so then yes I'd think about whether I want that person in my life. If it's just that neither of us have been in touch then I'd have no problem with that.

I have one friend who is late for everything. Always, always late. I am always a little early and hate unpunctuality. She used to drive me bonkers, until I realised that her friendship was worth so much more to me that lateness just didn't matter. I stopped being wound up by it, remained punctual myself, and took a book for while I waited, rather like going to an appointment at GP or hosp, though much nicer in the end and well worth it.