I don’t think I like toddlers. Are they all this awful?!

[JustAskingMate]

Exasperated by this past few weekends. I have a baby girl who is 1. Since having her I’ve made a lot of ‘mum friends’ from various groups who have babies and toddlers of varying ages.

Each one who has a toddler I’ve come away shocked and horrified as whats to come!

Im talking about hair pulling, smacking, biting, screaming, running away and just general feral behaviour.

I completely get the running around and screaming but the aggression of these kids is next level. Because my baby is so much younger she is more vulnerable to harm. Whenever of my friends kids comes near her I pull her away immediately as i genuinely think they’d cause serious harm. The two times I let them get near they pulled her hair and throwed a hard plastic toy at her. For no reason whatsoever.

Those who have small babies plus a nightmare toddler I wonder how they do anything. If left unsupervised for a moment their baby could suffer a serious injury from their sibling.

I love my baby unconditionally so know the other parents do of course, but how they manage to not scream with rage/frustration astounds me and I give them so much credit.

Some of these toddlers I actively dislike due to their behaviour. Don’t find them cute at all and have cancelled any future meet ups with them now as I cannot be around it. I want to give them a proper telling off when they are hitting/biting/attacking instead of letting their parents who they don’t even listen to, but of course I can’t.

I’ve only met two toddlers out of around 12 toddlers who weren’t feral. They ran around and didn’t always listen, but they weren’t aggressive at all.

The parents responses to the behaviours differ. Some just sigh and give a loose telling off whilst others actively tell them off. But nothing seems to make a difference. So I’m guessing it’s just developmental.

The kids don’t seem to care about being reprimanded at all. No fear or upset about being told off from mum/dad. They continue.

Is this behaviour inevitable? How do parents cope? Especially with both a baby and a toddler?

I know I have this all to come and I am dreading it!!!!!

There is a reason its called terrible twos/threes. BUT they aren't chaotic ALL the time otherwise there wouldn't be a sane parent on planet earth. Honestly mine can be a feral and within a split second the most loving, gentle and affectionate child. All i say is it's 'interesting'.

Most childhood (human?) behaviour is to do with getting needs met. I'd guess that during the periods of time you're with your friends, their children aren't getting much attention, so they're doing what they need to to get it

The difference will be that it will be your toddler. If they are a handful you will love them through it because you loved them as a baby, will love them as a toddler, as a tween, as a teenager, an adolescent and an adult. All of these ages will bring difficulties and behavioural challenges but you will love them through each stage regardless.

Yeah, it's not that you can't do it, it's that it may very well be completely pointless. And if it does yield results, you could be a long time away from that.

Getting "cross" used to work with my toddler. I didn't do it often, but his bottom lip would go when I did.

He was poking his baby brother in a supermarket trolley. "Stop that or mummy will get cross" was guaranteed to put a stop to anything, until the day his response was "You won't shout in Tesco"

Honestly the child can have been no more than 2 and a half.

It kind of depends what you mean by "a proper telling off" - you referenced in your OP that these toddlers are "not scared or upset" - which kind of makes me think that what you mean by a proper telling off = shouting, being scary, upsetting the child.

That's not recommended parenting nowadays, because it's too scary, it could even be considered abusive, if you have little children who are doing as they are told because they are frightened that somebody big and loud and stronger them will tower over them and terrorise them! It is no longer recommended to rely on fear of scary punishment. If you do use punishment as a parenting tool, it should be something calm, mild, temporary and age-appropriate - for example, time out/sitting on step for 1 min x age of child, or grounding or removal of pocket money for a teenager. Something that the child does not like, but isn't terrifying.

Assuming you did not actually mean that, and more mean that the parents didn't firmly explain that we do not do this and the child did not seem ashamed - I think this is just an expectation which is not age appropriate. You are probably thinking more of older children.

For example, my eldest child has never been upset ever by being told off unless someone is really scary or you punish him and even then, he rarely cried, he was more likely to argue and then go into tears from frustration when he doesn't win the argument. My middle one is the proverbial child who will burst into upset tears if you even look at him a little bit sternly because he thinks that he is in trouble. But he didn't do that as a little toddler of the age to go to toddler groups. He probably started doing it more at 3.5 / 4+ - it's a social understanding for him - if he perceives disappointment/shame then he's really upset regardless of the actual harshness of the sanction. I don't think children of the ages of 2-3 really experience shame in the same way, they may fear punishment, especially if they get punished in a scary way (e.g. smacking) and most will protest if you take them out of a situation (e.g. time out) but they don't really have the shame response to being told off in the same way that older children do.

It's about what the purpose of telling off a child is - is it supposed to be the punishment in itself (so scary, shouty, shaming) or is it supposed to be a way to communicate so that the child can learn what is and isn't acceptable? More modern research about child development supports a comunication/learning model, and so some parenting models (I don't like using the term gentle parenting any more, because it has become too broad) don't even use "telling off" in a negative sense at all any more, because if you want somebody to learn something, having their brain flooded with stress hormones doesn't help. So instead a model for young children might be to interrupt the action and redirect them to something else, rather than expecting them to understand a lecture about their behaviour and for that to influence future behaviour alone. Remember these are very young children, their language processing is not that developed, their impulse control is very underdeveloped, so even if they "know" that they should not do something, and can recite that rule back to you, that does not always allow them to stop themselves from doing it, especially if there are other stressors such as tiredness, hunger, etc. And they might not have completely been able to fully take in a rule yet nor generalise it - so they might know that they are not allowed to throw trains, but not understand that this also applies to all hard toys. Or they might know about a rule that applies at home but think that because this is playgroup, it's different (especially if they see other children doing the same thing). It's all a process of guiding their behaviour, you can't just get a perfectly behaved toddler overnight.

My kids were feral toddlers, I hated it but it only seemed to last a short time but different phases so at one time my impeccably behaved eldest (now) ran around screaming at every organised activity I took him to. I tried every single technique and nothing worked. It did coincide with his sibling arriving but I think it was just plain toddler behaviour and it just suddenly stopped after a few months. Youngest would tantrum but never otherwise an issue (yet definitely harder work than the oldest was now). I think personality has a big impact in terms of both the child and parent for getting through that stage. I do feel lots of parents seem to give up parenting at that point and assume it's OK for a toddler to be rampant but I don't personally, even though what I tried wasn't effective I think it set the ground rules for when they got older. You do have to pick your battles though and one of the benefits of being at groups is you see its not just your child who is a menace.

In my experience the toddlers you describe are the exception! My son is 2.5 so we're surrounded in them right now😅

My toddler wasn't feral, he was a sweet boy.
The worst he ever did was have a lying on the floor tantrum.

I think they look so much more wild and dangerous when you have your first baby and are feeling extremely protective.

A bit of hitting, biting, throwing is normal as part of learning that they can't do, just as much as learning what they can do. (How else will they know not to do it without doing it and being removed from the situation?)

Shouting at them is pretty much pointless, and is generally done when parents have lost it a bit rather as good practice. Intervening, distracting, and where necessary removing them from the situation is more effective.

What's going to teach little Oliver/Olivia best? That when they hit that kid using the interesting toy they are taken home from toddler group, away from all the friends and toys OR that a grown up shouts at them? Grown ups can shout about loads of things. "I hit = I can't play anymores" is more effective learning tool.

The trick is to always follow through. Not gloss over it because you want to stay for another coffee and some company.

They call them the terrible twos and threenagers for a reason.

Some parents don't tell their kids off in front of other people because they can be judgemental twats.

And others just think fuck it.

Toddlers are wankers (well my twins were)

Hi! I have years of experience working in nurseries and no, toddlers are not all like this. They are chaotic, they push boundaries and they can hurt each other but I’ve never looked after one who would hurt a baby. I love the toddler phase!

My 19 month old goes between being the most lovable little guy to the devil reincarnated in 3 seconds flat. He bounces things of me/the floor ect but it's all about him learning about the world and what's acceptable and what's not. He's been hit with toys at nursery and unfortunately that's just one of they things. I'm sure he will eventually hit another child.
yeh so basically being a mum to a toddler you never know what your getting😂😂😂

My toddlers were gentle and lazy and polite. Not boasting as I think a lot is down to luck. It's a lovely age, don't dread it.

I used to work in a nursery and looked after a class full of toddlers - to be honest they were all absolutely lovely, cuddly, bright, curious children, and there was only literally one little boy who I vividly remember being a bit naughty 😂

My son is 2 and went through a horrific stage of hair pulling and pushing etc . Thankfully never biting. It really upset me , I read books , called the HV even snuck in his nursery to watch his behaviour as he done it there more so than at home (they obviously new I was there he didn't ). His speech was slightly delayed and as soon as he started speaking it all stopped. His was definitely a frustration with communication. Obviously he still throws tantrums sometimes . But no hitting etc

Yeah it’s normal toddler behaviour but some kids are more uhh.. lively than others, for whatever reason.

Mine was never like this either, I have always been able to take her places without tantrums or bad behaviour, but I’m a firm believer in discipline and have nipped bad behaviour in the bud as soon as it happens (for example she bit me once, never bit anyone again) we don’t smack but we would do time out, going home if bad behaviour was displayed, taking away toys, early bedtimes etc. Never had to check her twice for the same thing to be honest. Sharing can be a difficult one to get right. Sounds like poor discipline in some of your friends to be honest, I also would cancel future play dates, and I bet you’re not the only one! You have to be really consistent with toddlers and it takes lots of effort to raise them right, some people just don’t want to put the effort in.

I didn’t mix with many of these mums because I found many used these meet ups as an excuse to have time off and didn’t really supervise their kids. I would always supervise DD and she would never attack other kids and she is very very energetic.

In my experience, my toddler starts to lose it and hit people when he's tired or already bothered by something, so he's "dysregulated". Yelling at him just introduces more chaos into the chaos. He needs an external source of calm which I can provide. What he actually needs is help getting in control of himself, and a hug and some swaying around or a snack or a break in a quiet room are what actually helps him. I recommend the book "the whole brain child", it was a real paradigm shift for me wrt behaviour. I know it's effective for us because when I'm not in control of myself, and I do shout at him out of frustration, I can see the situation just spiral completely out of my control.

My kids are wild, they are crazy. 4 & 2. But, I would never let them hurt a baby, if I saw them doing something dangerous towards a baby they would be told. It’s unacceptable. Your baby will be a crazy toddler at some point but you can teach your toddlers to be aware of babies & how vulnerable they are.

my Grandson is a toddler and he’s adorable, he went through all Todler stages, tantrums etc but my Son is such a good dad. He never shouts, he never hits him, he just talks to him and whatever he tells him will happen if he does that again ( whatever he did that was unacceptable behaviour) he follows through, like no toys for the rest of the evening etc . I do believe in most cases it’s how you bring them up , and always follow through and be consistent

@Pear2301, I appreciate you mean well, but no one should be applauding an adult for not hitting a tiny child.

So out of everything I wrote you chose to just pick up on that .. jeez

You also said he’s ‘such a good father’ because he doesn’t shout at his toddler. It does sound as if your bar for good parenting is low…?