Online abuse/bullying - why do people do it?

[GummyBearMummyBear]

So I’m just interested to see what other people’s thoughts are on this subject.

Long story short, haven’t been on MN too long, while back I posted something on AIBU, and the backlash I got was horrific. I got so many abusive comments, and personal too, someone even suggested harm come to my children because of what I posted. The reaction was very unexpected and shocking. I don’t think many people post on AIBU expecting everyone to agree with them, myself included, but the pile on of cruel and abusive comments was outrageous.

I noticed the amount of people relentlessly telling me to accept I was wrong, which I actually had done (many, many times), but it reached the point by then that no matter what I said I was wrong, a terrible human being, and anyone who agreed with me was receiving abusive comments too.

This led me to think the pile on of people being abusive were actually taking some pleasure in what they were doing, as why did it even matter to them that much anyway? I asked MN to remove the thread, because it had become so toxic, every other post was being deleted anyway by that point.

We can all have a difference of opinion sure, but I never once said anything rude to anyone nor did I ever consider it, yet so many thought nothing of unleashing hell on me because I held a different view on something, it just wasn’t that big a deal.

I used to think when I heard people in the public eye complaining about online trolling and the effect it had on them - why does it matter what a random stranger says about you online? But even this, just some random post on a MN forum, had a huge effect on me. It felt intrusive, I was being bullied in my own home, from a safe space. And these people could be anyone, I could be walking past them in the street.

Anyway sorry for the long post! I just wondered what other people’s views are on this, why do people do it, why do people have a need to ‘prove others wrong’, why do people enjoy bullying others? Has anyone been in a similar situation and did it affect them in any way? Just looking for a chat and friendly discussion here!

They do it because they can. They hide behind a keyboard . Makes them.feel.powerful.They wouldn't dare say it in real life because they would probably end up getting a kicking

I’m not defending abuse, and I like how quick MNHQ are to delete posts which are personal attacks, but sometimes I think what looks like a pile on results when posters only read the OP, and not subsequent posts, either by the OP or other posters, so they are not necessarily aware that they are replying with the same reply that’s been made dozens of times already. But there are some people though who seem positively gleeful at putting the boot in. Other times, OPs are equally antagonistic. AIBU is known for its robust nature, and half of what’s posted there is made up bollocks anyway, so I don’t think it’s representative. Other topics have great support for people needing it.

As for what people get out of it - well, bullies are bullies, and they do it out of insecurity, the need to feel superior and to gain some power when they feel otherwise powerless. The internet has, unfortunately, widened the pool of possible victims infinitely, and made it possible to do it anonymously and hide from the repercussions. The best form of defence is to understand all this and decide on how you are comfortable using the internet yourself - trying to control other people (when their activity falls short of criminal) is a fool’s errand, sadly.

On MN, I think people often feel aggrieved and suggest that they’re being trolled when it’s a case that they’re getting opinions (that, often, they asked for) from people who can be honest and don’t need to censor their words to protect personal relationships.

If you ask a friend for advice, they’re likely to sugarcoat it. If you ask a stranger, they don’t need to.

I think that’s what upsets so many people- they post wanting support but then very quickly realise that their view of a situation is not shared by hundreds of people and they have to understand that maybe they’re wrong, and unreasonable in their approach.

Were you really 'being bullied in my own home in my safe space' or did you not like the responses you got on an anonymous forum where you could have name changed, hidden the thread and moved on?

Since it's been deleted its hard to know if it was trolling/bullying.

They do it because they can, because they are weak individuals who want to feel big and superior and (for some of them) because they also have far too much time on their hands.

What they say can sting, but I take the view that they simply aren't worth the time of day.

I think a lot of people think very unkind thoughts and are gleeful at not needing to filter them as you naturally would face to face. I think the longer this communication environment is part of our lives the more other people see others doing it, and the more and more black and white thinking becomes normal.
Seeing things through other people's eyes and taking that into account, responding with nuance and giving the benefit of the doubt, are all skills, so the less you see others using them the easier and easier it gets to switch to no-filter slam dunk style responses where the recipient is either friend or foe and nothing in between.

They do it because their lives are shit so it makes them feel better to be horrible to people online. Wouldn't have the balls to do it in real life.

This forum once had a reputation for being a supportive and safe place for women, but as these people show and actually say, that is no longer the case. It is poorly moderated and there's a core of people here who think that they can get away with pretty much anything and some of them do. They seem to think that if you don't agree with them then you're wrong. They also seem to look for ways to twist what you've written and their (often incorrect) interpretation apart. If they sense weakness or find someone who engages with them they seem to be all the happier and then the sharks really come in sensing blood.

When challenged on it they say "this is a public forum, do you expect everyone to just agree with the OP" as though that excuses their behaviour, which it doesn't. Personal attacks are not allowed on Mumsnet but there is next to no penalty for doing so (you might get your post removed eventually, but by then the hurt has already been done).

I find it very concerning that people have said they are struggling mentally in their posts or replies and that even these comments have been torn into. People dont seem to care about or consider the impact of their comments and that their is a real, upset, and vulnerable person reading them who could end up really upset or worse. But they seem to think its "tough love" and what the poster "needs" which it clearly isn't. You just need to go into the mental health thread to see that there are very real people on here who are vulnerable. I was really upset when one thread was posted by someone saying "this is it" and then they'e gone.

@GummyBearMummyBear stay away from AIBU. Apparently the more undesirable people hang around there waiting for fresh meat to rip into.

@Mumsnet Sort your moderation out or you will see a rival place setup and take over. You're spending too much time trying to flog stuff (pack it in with the vibrator already) and not enough time looking after people. Your lack of timely and effective moderation is as much to blame as those doing the trolling. You also need to update your forum software as its inadequate for the modern day and does not allow people to block others or delete or modify their posts and threads. That's archaic.

I think the reason it hurts is because it tilts your world view into thinking it is a more hostile place than it is.
I actively avoid knives-out threads if I start to feel like that.
I think Mumsnet is one of the better places online, the swift deletions are a big help for that! But even so the gradual creep of this culture has leaked in more than it did I think. I've been around for over a decade and well thought out responses or thought provoking humour was more common when I started here I think.

It's funny people say they wouldn't have the courage to say these things in real life. I agree with this, but when I asked some of the abusive people why they were saying these things to me, many of them responded saying they would also say the same to my face, I think unlikely, thankfully people don't seem to be quite so unpleasant face to face.

I get sometimes it's not abusive and it is just people, maybe lots of people, having a different view and maybe the OP doesn't like it. In my case, I didn't mind reading the posts from people saying 'I don't agree, I would have done this/that differently' etc. Fine. But for someone to genuinely tell me they hoped my kids got hurt (my post was nothing to do with my kids, or anyone's), that's not just a difference of opinion.

What did make me laugh was at one point I said 'I know I was in the wrong about xyz, and I apologise for that' - I got several 'no I don't think you're sorry enough' replies. I mean clearly you can't win!

I've noticed it OP.
It makes me cringe.
I think some people are so angry at life they have to drag others down to their level. There are some lovely posters on here and that makes being on MN worthwhile for me.

Hi @GummyBearMummyBear

Yeah I agree with you. Had a baptism of fire on MN not so long ago and some of the responses I got well and truly crossed a line into just plain old abuse. I was specifically asking for practical advice from others that had been through a similar situation, and instead I got so much judgement, outright hostility and a load of insults. I felt like I wasn’t even sharing an opinion, just a tricky situation that had transpired and thoughts on how to repair it. Had a few helpful responses, some of which were quite challenging so I wasn’t after replies who agreed with me or which were sympathetic. People inferring all sorts of nasty and untrue things about my relationship and how I was probably the OW (had to look OW up because I had no idea what it meant!), people wilfully misinterpreting what I was saying and taking my words out of context and so on. What I learned is that some people just jump in without really reading things properly and have no sensibility when it comes to things like nuance etc. MN took it down as it was so toxic.

I learned that there’s a real fault line between divorced mums and step mums. Don’t think I’ll be posting on here again about anything similar, guess I learned the hard way.

Chin up, and don’t let the dick-heads get you down xx

My experience has been dealing with some massively sensitive posters.

I don't stand for bullying of any nature but sadly some people aren't up for for hearing any opinions other than their own, and they take great offence at being told something different to their core beliefs.

A rival space is already set up, that W R 8 or whatever it is. Free from "hate speech" as it's called these days.

I take issue with that. A lot of people have twisted free speech into "hate speech". We need to be careful as a society pushing for this as before we know it we'll end up losing our liberty.

I've been on MN for 20 plus years. Sometimes I've had harsh responses that I needed to hear and actually helped me.

However, what you're talking about @GummyBearMummyBear is a problem on MN. There are some vile trolls on MN these days but you just have to ignore them. If they were happy people, they wouldn't have to behave this way.

I do agree about free speech/hate speech, and finding a balance. People should be allowed to speak freely, but I don't think abusive language is ever really justified. I was called a cunt many times, even after I again acknowledged a wrongdoing again, someone said 'you're not sorry you're just a cunt' - that is not free speech in my view.

@AsItWasInAnOwlsTree I get what you're saying, but why does it need to be the person on the receiving end of these things that needs to change the way they think/feel about a certain situation, when it might be justified? Why can't the bully just stop being a bully, you know. But maybe you're right.

That's how it made me feel, just very intrusive. But no, I didn't particularly like the responses telling me I was an awful person, a cunt, etc etc etc. and the comment about my children, that's the one that stuck with me - and on a forum for parents too.

The people who bully or abuse can't stop it because they are on a power kick. Especially when they believe that they can do it without repercussions.

Yeah, what you're recounting there is not ok. No need to become personal and calling someone a cunt is actual hate speech.

However, I've had some vile people really twist things I've said, and that's the problem with the world now.

You can no longer call out a situation for what it actually is. There has to be some flowery/fluffy bollocks "reason" as to why why something l has happened.

Eugh that doesn't make great sense. Hoping you can ignore the errors 🤦🏼‍♀️

There are a lot of unhappy people that come to this website and it seems this is their outlet for their frustration.

They either have a personality defect and are incapable of giving constructive feedback - instead they puff out their chests and proudly proclaim ‘I call a spade a fucking spade, me’. Either that or something went wrong with their lives at some point and they remain bitter, unhappy people. In years gone by their great great etc grannies were the ones screaming ‘burn the witch’ from the doorways of their hovels and so the nastiness is firmly embedded in their DNA.

Lack of maturity, social inadequacy, pathetic need to gain ego boost by delivering insults.

I always assume they have very small lives to go with their small minds.

Personal attacks, like lying, are cheap and easy to do. So tells you a lot about someone

Theres an Irish site that is actually as bad as here and it is private but all the above is true. Trolls are just bored with their lives really and love seeing other peoples misery. Unfortunately it is what we have to contend with to chat online to strangers.