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Original poster

Online abuse/bullying - why do people do it?

53 replies

GummyBearMummyBear · 06/02/2023 09:29

So I’m just interested to see what other people’s thoughts are on this subject.

Long story short, haven’t been on MN too long, while back I posted something on AIBU, and the backlash I got was horrific. I got so many abusive comments, and personal too, someone even suggested harm come to my children because of what I posted. The reaction was very unexpected and shocking. I don’t think many people post on AIBU expecting everyone to agree with them, myself included, but the pile on of cruel and abusive comments was outrageous.

I noticed the amount of people relentlessly telling me to accept I was wrong, which I actually had done (many, many times), but it reached the point by then that no matter what I said I was wrong, a terrible human being, and anyone who agreed with me was receiving abusive comments too.

This led me to think the pile on of people being abusive were actually taking some pleasure in what they were doing, as why did it even matter to them that much anyway? I asked MN to remove the thread, because it had become so toxic, every other post was being deleted anyway by that point.

We can all have a difference of opinion sure, but I never once said anything rude to anyone nor did I ever consider it, yet so many thought nothing of unleashing hell on me because I held a different view on something, it just wasn’t that big a deal.

I used to think when I heard people in the public eye complaining about online trolling and the effect it had on them - why does it matter what a random stranger says about you online? But even this, just some random post on a MN forum, had a huge effect on me. It felt intrusive, I was being bullied in my own home, from a safe space. And these people could be anyone, I could be walking past them in the street.

Anyway sorry for the long post! I just wondered what other people’s views are on this, why do people do it, why do people have a need to ‘prove others wrong’, why do people enjoy bullying others? Has anyone been in a similar situation and did it affect them in any way? Just looking for a chat and friendly discussion here!

OP posts:
Coyoacan · 06/02/2023 11:39

I think part of it is that we are discussing and almost negotiating the unwritten rules of society. So we don't just see the actions of one person in one situation but the opprobrium or approval society-wide for such behaviours.

AsItWasInAnOwlsTree · 06/02/2023 11:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster

ilovesooty · 06/02/2023 12:04

FenghuangHoyan · 06/02/2023 09:53

This forum once had a reputation for being a supportive and safe place for women, but as these people show and actually say, that is no longer the case. It is poorly moderated and there's a core of people here who think that they can get away with pretty much anything and some of them do. They seem to think that if you don't agree with them then you're wrong. They also seem to look for ways to twist what you've written and their (often incorrect) interpretation apart. If they sense weakness or find someone who engages with them they seem to be all the happier and then the sharks really come in sensing blood.

When challenged on it they say "this is a public forum, do you expect everyone to just agree with the OP" as though that excuses their behaviour, which it doesn't. Personal attacks are not allowed on Mumsnet but there is next to no penalty for doing so (you might get your post removed eventually, but by then the hurt has already been done).

I find it very concerning that people have said they are struggling mentally in their posts or replies and that even these comments have been torn into. People dont seem to care about or consider the impact of their comments and that their is a real, upset, and vulnerable person reading them who could end up really upset or worse. But they seem to think its "tough love" and what the poster "needs" which it clearly isn't. You just need to go into the mental health thread to see that there are very real people on here who are vulnerable. I was really upset when one thread was posted by someone saying "this is it" and then they'e gone.

@GummyBearMummyBear stay away from AIBU. Apparently the more undesirable people hang around there waiting for fresh meat to rip into.

@Mumsnet Sort your moderation out or you will see a rival place setup and take over. You're spending too much time trying to flog stuff (pack it in with the vibrator already) and not enough time looking after people. Your lack of timely and effective moderation is as much to blame as those doing the trolling. You also need to update your forum software as its inadequate for the modern day and does not allow people to block others or delete or modify their posts and threads. That's archaic.

The site is reactively moderated. It depends on people reporting personal attacks when they see them.

Original poster
GummyBearMummyBear · 06/02/2023 12:09

It is a real shame nothing can be done, people can say these things with no consequence to them, but the damage peoples words can have is so real.

After my AIBU post I did keep more of an eye on these posts, saw one this weekend that was horrific, was deleted too. I've seen quite a few, all same sort of thing, similar cruel and nasty comments. Some get deleted, some stay. Nothing changes, or can be done it seems.

OP posts:
FenghuangHoyan · 06/02/2023 12:15

@ilovesooty I know it is. I think it could be more proactively moderated. Its clearly now a business, so pay people to keep the place safe and secure rather than leaving it to the "customers".

FenghuangHoyan · 06/02/2023 12:17

@GummyBearMummyBear Lots could be done. Mumsnet could employ moderators to enforce their T&C's and not leave it to the forum users to report things which are often not dealt with until the next day if out of hours. Its not rocket science. You could also tighten up the signup process so that's there's more accountability for people who went out of line and got banned.

Original poster
GummyBearMummyBear · 06/02/2023 12:22

FenghuangHoyan · 06/02/2023 12:17

@GummyBearMummyBear Lots could be done. Mumsnet could employ moderators to enforce their T&C's and not leave it to the forum users to report things which are often not dealt with until the next day if out of hours. Its not rocket science. You could also tighten up the signup process so that's there's more accountability for people who went out of line and got banned.

Completely true. I remember once hearing about the possibility of having to put passport/driving license details in when signing up to Twitter, lots of people outraged, because of the invasion of privacy. I remember wondering why it would bother people, if they're happy to say whatever they say online in real life, why the need for complete and total anonymity in that respect.

OP posts:
BigMacExtraPickles · 06/02/2023 12:26

Thing is though, the current reporting system is entirely subjective isn't it. I've said things that have been removed because someone has reported it.

My views/opinions have to be removed because they aren't in keeping with the #bekind brigade. Yet they are free spread all sorts of misinformation/rhetoric and because I don't feel the need to be petty people, purely because we have a difference of politics. Their views get to stay for all to read.

Unless something is a personal attack it should stay in my opinion. People get things removed far too hastily on here and it doesn't actually allow for intelligent debate.

FizzyPiglet · 06/02/2023 12:26

LexMitior · 06/02/2023 11:18

Lack of maturity, social inadequacy, pathetic need to gain ego boost by delivering insults.

I always assume they have very small lives to go with their small minds.

Personal attacks, like lying, are cheap and easy to do. So tells you a lot about someone

A concise summary! I agree.

I think if you're bored and unhappy the 'thrill' of being mean gives you a little buzz.
Also some people are raised in families that normalise talking to people like shit, which is sad, but adults can chose to change that.

If you're happy and secure, you get no buzz from tearing others down.

Original poster
GummyBearMummyBear · 06/02/2023 12:37

BigMacExtraPickles · 06/02/2023 12:26

Thing is though, the current reporting system is entirely subjective isn't it. I've said things that have been removed because someone has reported it.

My views/opinions have to be removed because they aren't in keeping with the #bekind brigade. Yet they are free spread all sorts of misinformation/rhetoric and because I don't feel the need to be petty people, purely because we have a difference of politics. Their views get to stay for all to read.

Unless something is a personal attack it should stay in my opinion. People get things removed far too hastily on here and it doesn't actually allow for intelligent debate.

I once read a hilarious post (because of the irony, not because it was funny) from someone replying to an OP saying, 'Why can't people just be kind. You could have been a lot kinder, or are you just too much of a twat to know how to do that' - it amused me for obvious reasons. I agree that sometimes people preaching about being kind can be the worst sort of bullies. I think it's sometimes more an 'agree with me or else' attitude than #bekind.

OP posts:
FenghuangHoyan · 06/02/2023 12:37

BigMacExtraPickles · 06/02/2023 12:26

Thing is though, the current reporting system is entirely subjective isn't it. I've said things that have been removed because someone has reported it.

My views/opinions have to be removed because they aren't in keeping with the #bekind brigade. Yet they are free spread all sorts of misinformation/rhetoric and because I don't feel the need to be petty people, purely because we have a difference of politics. Their views get to stay for all to read.

Unless something is a personal attack it should stay in my opinion. People get things removed far too hastily on here and it doesn't actually allow for intelligent debate.

Posts get removed as the moderator agrees with the reporter that the poster has broken the T&Cs, not because of the #BeKind Brigade (whoever they are).

Aside from "Personal Attack", there is also "Hate Speech" and "Other, please specify" (I'm assuming you're not "Advertising").

So, if your posts are getting deleted, maybe you could start asking yourself why an independent moderator thinks the site would be better off without them and maybe change how you write.

BigMacExtraPickles · 06/02/2023 12:42

@FenghuangHoyan define "Hate Speech". An unpopular opinion in an increasingly censored world isn't actually hate speech. Sadly we are now made to feel it is.

Pseudonamed · 06/02/2023 12:49

LexMitior · 06/02/2023 11:18

Lack of maturity, social inadequacy, pathetic need to gain ego boost by delivering insults.

I always assume they have very small lives to go with their small minds.

Personal attacks, like lying, are cheap and easy to do. So tells you a lot about someone

All of this!

jtaeapa · 06/02/2023 12:51

It’s really the same reasons as why people do offline bullying. I don’t know what those reasons are, but I do know that there are large numbers of bullies about.

AnneElliott · 06/02/2023 13:01

Some people like to be contrary and disagree with the op. Even if they said the opposite on a different thread.

There's also a sort of 'collective view' both on here and in the wider social media spaces. Stuff like Brexit is horrendous, the Tories will go out at the next election, strikes are fully justified etc etc. And if you disagree about any of that collective view then the poster does get jumped on. Then MN and Twitter wonder why they didn't see Brexit or.Tory majority coming Hmm. Like some of the threads on here will often patronisingly tell posters to 'educate themselves' as if the mark of education is to follow the consensus. I actually think a fair bit of critical thinking skills would go a long way, both here and in the wider world.

And on MN yes step parents are often heavily criticised. Sometimes justified and sometimes not but posters learn not to post about those situations. Which is a shame as the point is to get as wide variety of views as possible.

DatasCat · 06/02/2023 13:04

I don’t think MSM/tabloid culture helps either. Back in the 90s/00s it was really seen as ‘edgy’ to be as nasty, vindictive and negative as possible. The likes of Julie Burchill, Cosmo Landesman and Victor Lewis-Smith made whole careers of it.

ilovesooty · 06/02/2023 13:08

FenghuangHoyan · 06/02/2023 12:15

@ilovesooty I know it is. I think it could be more proactively moderated. Its clearly now a business, so pay people to keep the place safe and secure rather than leaving it to the "customers".

They do pay moderators - I've had replies and responses (and appropriate deletions made) at least up until 11pm. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking customers to take some responsibility for reporting - it's a very large site.

ilovesooty · 06/02/2023 13:11

And, of course, take responsibility for what they post in the first place.

ResearchMakesMeCry · 06/02/2023 13:18

Once I was on here and I remember replying to a thread far too quickly, and in a slightly extreme manner. I'm usually quite measured and I noticed this in myself. The medium itself doesn't help, and without self-awareness it's even worse.

watchesrubber · 06/02/2023 13:20

I've seen a lot of these threads and was actually caught up in one a few years ago. I posted what I thought was a lighthearted thread and it was a pile on, complete with name calling, the lot. I can totally handle hearing things I don't agree with but name-calling isn't necessary. That's bullying and I think people do it just because they can.

I have noticed a slightly different tone recently though. If it feels like a pile on is happening, I've noticed more users being willing to wade in and say 'this is wrong'. I think that's good!

Anyone who thinks that anonymous people calling you names, isn't likely to hurt and harm you, has probably never been on the receiving end of it.

Oldraver · 06/02/2023 13:51

I recently saw a post on a local selling site, someone selling a waterproof jacket at the going rate for a top quality jacket

The abuse they were given was appalling, I was so shocked people could be so over something so insignificant

SirChenjins · 06/02/2023 13:53

ilovesooty · 06/02/2023 13:08

They do pay moderators - I've had replies and responses (and appropriate deletions made) at least up until 11pm. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking customers to take some responsibility for reporting - it's a very large site.

Show quote history

I don’t think moderators are paid - there was something recently about them being volunteers and criticism for a site like MN not paying them.

ilovesooty · 06/02/2023 13:55

SirChenjins · 06/02/2023 13:53

I don’t think moderators are paid - there was something recently about them being volunteers and criticism for a site like MN not paying them.

Show quote history

I think that would have referred to The Night Watch, who are volunteers.

BigMacExtraPickles · 06/02/2023 14:11

Oldraver · 06/02/2023 13:51

I recently saw a post on a local selling site, someone selling a waterproof jacket at the going rate for a top quality jacket

The abuse they were given was appalling, I was so shocked people could be so over something so insignificant

Ha! I've been abused loads on gumtree over the years! People getting narky with me because I won't deliver to them, or basically pay for them to take it away from me!

darisdet · 06/02/2023 14:18

Aldisfinest · 06/02/2023 09:50

They do it because their lives are shit so it makes them feel better to be horrible to people online. Wouldn't have the balls to do it in real life.

I often think this is true of them. They probably wouldn't say boo to a goose in real life.

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