Antibreastfeeding?

[Redebs]

Having just browsed some of the 'Help articles' on here, I'm shocked at how Mumsnet is discouraging breastfeeding.

There's one on how normal it is to wean off the breast at two months because of all the 'problems you will have'.

There's one on 'combi feeding', which is about giving formula feeds to breastfed babies - the surest way to reduce your milk supply in reality.

There's another one about packing dummies and bottles in your hospital labour bag. This is definitely going to interfere with newborns getting colostrum and learning to latch. If a baby needs anything, the hospital will provide it in reality.

I know some women choose to formula feed, but these are insidious, supposedly helpful, undermining tactics aimed at new mothers trying to breastfeed. Most of these are sponsored by the baby bottle manufacturer MAM.

If formula companies were promoting this, they would be, rightly, in contravention of advertising rules.

All medical and scientific advice is to give exclusively breastmilk for the first six months and to continue to at least twelve months or longer.

@Twizbe. I'm not sure we should waste our energy on that particular poster to be honest. I'm absolutely certain that she really does understand about the insidious nature of marketing. Either that or I've misinterpreted the motivation behind the (literally I think) hundreds of times she has promoted the use of perfect prep machines on every single BF thread that have been on mumsnet over the years.

wish I got paid for the number of times I’ve bought a prefect prep machine - would be rich. They are my go to for new parent presents.

Ah yes the perfect prep presents ... when do you ask these parents if they want one. I hope it's after formula feeding had been established, otherwise that's a nice bit of confidence undermining / judging you're doing.

Oh yes, I know. Absolutely.

Do you have a lot of kids? Seems a really expensive present to give anyone other than your own kids.

P. S. Also, you didn't answer my earlier question up-thread. I was really interested to hear which brand of the 'antiquated' version of a perfect prep machine you used yourself over 20 years ago?

Sorry I should have phrased that better - as I too didn't want to only stay on my sofa (although wasn't quite up for coffees).
I mean that mothers should have the option to stay on the sofa and not go anywhere unless they feel up to it and want to - not be chained to it (in some cultures postpartum women are more or less forbidden to leave the house for a few weeks which would drive me insane too).
But being able to focus on resting and feeding for the first few weeks as needed would probably make a big difference to breastfeeding and mental health

Though this is all very off topic for the thread - so on topic I don't see how an advert for bottles helps women make informed decisions however they decide to feed?

sorry - did remember the message but thought I’d lost it.
Dont remember the brand - my parents bought it when they were in China or Hong Kong. It was the size of a sink! I’m in the uk at the moment but will check when I’m back home whether we have any photos. Looking back it was probably a health and safety hazard but very useful at the time.

@Parker231

"I rarely watch any TV and am not influenced by marketing - not that unusual. I make my own decisions from my own research"

You believe you're not influenced by marketing. But evidence shows you're wrong. I can believe I'm a 7 headed fairy but that has no relevance to reality.

This comment doesn't add up.

I would assume that someone who considers an £80 gift their go to present, and has purchased multiple of them, for new parents is already rich.

Even if it is true, it's an odd present (IMO) to buy for new parents unless they've specially asked for one.

It’s my go to present and discussed with the new parents before I give it - obviously wouldn’t give it to anyone planning on bf.
Dont see this as odd - no different from giving any other new baby present. Would rather give something they need/want than, as an example, more outfits when they already have plenty

Are you discussing or are you pushing?

I don't see this being any different to offering to buy an expensive breast pump for a new mum, which IMO would also be inappropriate, unless they have specially asked for one. It's not your business how they're choosing to feed, and these conversations can be more influential than you think.

These are friends not strangers - we talk, sometimes daily. I don’t suggest or recommend whether someone should bf or ff - not my decision. Totally up to the new parents - no different than when DH and I made our decisions.

Less relevant now as fewer friends and family having babies - waiting now for the next generation. Think I’ve years to wait for DS and DD - they are focusing on their careers, still very young and in relatively new relationships.

These are friends not strangers - we talk, sometimes daily.

Well I didn't imagine you were frequenting antenatal classes asking pregnant women if they wanted an £80 perfect prep machine on the way out.

Of course these conversations are influential. But we've established that you don't believe in the power of advertising, so it's not a surprise that you don't believe in the power of word of mouth either.

@Calphurnia88 - sorry you don’t have the same relationship with friends and family.

If a friend says they are using formula and has been to Boots to buy bottles, steriliser etc - do you ignore what they are talking about ? or do you ask why they aren’t bf?

£80 just seems a lot for a gift for someone not close family to me

Eh? You're completely missing my point.

Friends and family can be hugely influential (arguably the better the relationship the more influential), and new parents are very easily influenced.

You've said that perfect prep machines are your go to present for new parents. If I was having/had recently had my first baby, and a friend or family member who had already had children waxed lyrical about the virtues of perfect prep machines and offered to buy me one as a present this would influence my decision-making process on feeding method, consciously or subconsciously. Like it or not, you pushing your personal experience and opinion on feeding on friends is influential.

The Lancet has just released a three part series on breastfeeding. One article is focused on the marketing practices of formula companies.

I've only read one of the papers so far, but they make for interesting reading.

If anyone is interested they are available to read on their website.

@Twizbe. I've not read them yet, but have seen it reported in the media. I'll definitely take a proper look! Thanks.

It's actually really disturbing.
I wonder how many friends or family members have been persuaded out of persevering with natural feeding by the presence of a so-called 'perfect' machine that is sitting in the kitchen willing them to fail?
Some people are really determined to stop babies from getting breastmilk!

Can’t decide whether you are deliberately ignoring what I have written. If a friend or family member tells me, not me asks them, that they have decided to use formula, why shouldn’t I offer to buy them a perfect prep? Do you not buy presents which would be useful for the new parents? I have no intention of saying - do you think that you should try bf - not my decision to make or influence.

I wouldn't spend anything like £80 on a friend's baby. I'd probably get them some nappies or something a lot cheaper.

I suggest you make your friends aware of the concern from e.g. food standards agency about the safety of prep machines for formula preparation - that way they can make an informed decision.

See information in the PDF linked here:

www.firststepsnutrition.org/making-infant-milk-safely

They said their midwives mentioned it when talking about how they planned on feeding

It's disturbing. I live somewhere where there is apparently 90% breastfeeding rates at 2 weeks and 71% at 4 months. Compared to 0.5% in say London.
I've concluded, when listening to some of the dialogue that one hears that British women have different bodies or brains to everyone else or that British women are Formula Feeding Freethinkers. Good luck to them. If people would stop being so defensive about it they would ask themselves why.
Formula milk is a multi billion £ industry relying on 1 thing, giving women one thing, the feeling that they could do something easier sugarcoated in 'freedom of choice' and 'doing best for baby', both of which are lies.
If you stop buying into the lie, you don't formula feed.

Or obviously British women are just built differently. Could be.