Teachers pay

[Folloe]

I have what might be a stupid question. If teachers aren’t paid for their holidays but have a yearly salary does that mean:

teachers salary: 40k for working 39 weeks of the week

Is then equivalent to a job that’s 48 weeks of the year (4 weeks for holidays) would be 49.2k

Im not against teachers striking and asking for pay rise to come from the government rather than the school pot. This isn’t a teacher bashing thread.

Sorry I disagree it’s exactly the same as saying no offence. Plus the OP gave the gig up when they said teachers should stop complaining about not being paid for holidays. It is absolutely a teacher bashing thread just with enough naïveté that people will ignore the bashing.

Maybe they don’t understand how pro rata works? I don’t believe it but I’ve had far too many discussions with people who insist that because you get an August pay packet you’re paid for the holidays 🙄

Which is why people get confused.

40k pro rata would surely mean a teacher actually got paid less than 40k but in 12 equal amounts?

Although teachers are directed to be in school 195 days, I don't think it's right to say that holidays, bar the 28 days statutory paid leave, are unpaid. When ststuroy paid leave went up by 4 from 24 to 28 days in 2007, our pay did not change, because we already had paid leave enough to accommodate that. Any teachers striking on Wednesday will have 1/365 of their salary deducted, not 1/195.

We are paid an annual salary to work 195 days, 1265 hours as directed by our headteacher, and additional, unspecified hours as required to carry out our professional reposnsibilities.

Some academy trusts may set their own pay and conditions of course, but that is from the standard teachers' pay and conditions document.

I don’t understand these threads - if the deal is so great why is there a shortage???
wouldn’t matter if it was £100k a day if no one would do it.
people are having breakdowns over teaching their kids for one day

Pro rats is what TA’s get. The post us advertised as £22k full time. Then because they don’t work 37 hours or in school holidays they end up with more like £16k ( or less).
Teachers don’t get paid fir the holidays but they’re salary is for the 1265 hours a year.

Yes I'm a TA
I get paid for four weeks more than I actually work ..statutory holiday.
Im only paid for the days/ hours I work.
Only Statutory sick pay
My yearly pay is divided by 12 so I get the same £ each month.
No bonuses ,I can only take time off in the school holidays so I can't book a day off for a wedding or a long weekend etc
I'm paid 32 hours a week and I'm paid about 10p an hour over the living wage...by April I'll be paid under the living wage .

We used to get docked 1/195 for a day's strike. This got changed after this was challenged in court.

The salary is not for 1265 hours. The STPCD is clear on that.

@Testingprof no I read this as the government can use this against teachers with
how pay is calculated if they keep saying we aren’t paid for holidays. The government could start advertising jobs as 50k but the pay is 40k as it’s contracted hours etc. Similar to how TA jobs are advertised.

OP never said they should stop complaining about not being paid. They are simply asking a question and got loads of angry responses.

I think people are highly emotional about the subject and rightly so but this isn’t a teacher bashing thread.

What is the point of this thread? What job do you have OP? Might give context.

It actually makes zero difference whether random posters on MN think teachers' pay is OK or not because the bottom line is, no one is applying to train and thousands already in the job are leaving.
Therefore, people need to be persuaded, financially, to do the job. Sugary PR films about "making a difference" aren't cutting it because it doesn't take long for students/new recruits to see the harsh realities for themselves.

People are having breakdowns on this thread because they don’t know what’s expected of their children on Wednesday .
Teachers go into teaching because they like kids or their subject or implanting knowledge. They didn’t go into it to because they love statistics, admin and made to feel inadequate by kids parents and SLT.
I honestly think people should leave the profession though. The state doesn’t owe anyone a job. Many hang on for too long because the money is ok, holidays more than you get elsewhere and teaching is interesting.

This!

A 13% pay cut over the last decade and a pay rise which hasn’t been funded, so children are further impacted with the erosion of resources.

It feels like these issues get lost in debates about school / teacher holidays.

Mary Bousted really needs to ramp up the spotlight on the crisis we’re facing in the recruitment and retention of teachers.

Ok but the advertised salary is the one you get. Whether you put in loads of extra hours or go off to Italy every 7 weeks. Unlike support staff who are pro rata.

@Arrrrrrragghhh You "honestly think people should leave the profession," do you?
Has it escaped your notice that that is precisely the problem? There. Are. Not. Enough. Teachers. Already.
We are in crisis. Your children are in crisis.
Why aren't people seeing this?!

This.

Nope the OP was not posting 'in goof faith'.
How do I know this
Because she then pulled the would actually be on because they work pro rata bullshit.

Also (and I know it was another poster but) FYI teacher in England don't get 4 weeks paid holiday. Teachers in Scotland do.

Some people here really do need to read up on contract law.

Just to through this in here! If a teacher is sick either side of a public holiday or school holiday they need a doctors note if the borough demands it or it can be classed as unpaid throughout the holiday. Also counts towards absence triggers! If your borough insists on this is can be a nightmare. Any other jobs do that?

But the OPs point is correct. If a teacher is paid 40k, then that is the equivalent of a higher salary for someone contracted to work 45 hours a week 47 weeks a year.

and guess what. Those people will also work far more hours than they are contracted to for no extra money, but quite possibly don’t have the pension and sick benefits teachers do.

You cannot ignore the fact that teachers have much more time off than the vast majority of other full time employees. It’s a massive perk.

I honestly think a big part of the problem
os most teachers have only ever gone to school, gone to uni, then worked in a school. As a result their perception of what it is like to work on a hospital ward, in a call centre or in a lawyers office is severely skewed.

Life outside of teaching isn’t the cushy number many seem to think it is.

For clarity I have a child who is a primary teacher and am married to a secondary teacher so I know exactly what hours they work compared to me and our other child.

I'm married to a teacher, @partystress summarised things quite well. My husband's working hours are ridiculous, 7.30am - 6pm at school, followed by a further 2+ hours once our children are in bed. He will also spend around 5 hours at the weekend working. This is the reason why he has made the decision this evening to leave. It's making him ill. The effort and work he is putting in still isn't good enough, it's at this point you realise enough is enough. I work 37 hours over 4 days, if I work anything over this, I take the time back. I earn more. I don't work evenings or weekends generally and even if I do I am thanked profusely and told to make sure I take my time back/I'm paid overtime.

My husband loves the actual teaching bit, he's a science teacher and is really passionate about his subject, but he can't keep working like this. It isn't just about the pay, to be honest even if you doubled his pay and nothing else changed he couldn't keep going like he is.

There will be no teachers left, I wouldn't encourage anyone to chose teaching as a career.

Believe me I know exactly what "normal" life and work is, I worked in corporate in London before moving to teaching

The corporate world was easier

And yet teachers don't get paid for these hypothetical hours and as such it is a poor argument.

If the discussion was that teachers should work the same as everybody else and have the same holidays then they would have a point.

I could ,using your and the OP's point, say that when I was on the oil rigs and was contracted for 6 months of the year that I actually earnt twice as much because it was pro-rata.
But it would still be wrong and as much of a BS argument.

Lets not distort the actual facts by making shit up.

And before you come back with "I hope your not a teacher, with language like that"

1/ I'm not at work
2/ Don't care.

Schools have to pay nearly 25% of each teacher’s salary into the Teachers’ Pensions Scheme. It would make sense to let teachers reduce this and take the saving as extra salary. I know some independent schools are offering this. E.g. teacher chooses an employer contribution of 10% into their pension instead of 25% and could then have the extra 15% as salary. 10% employer contribution is still better than most private sector schemes.

Teachers have 5 weeks paid holiday a year, the other school holiday weeks are unpaid. The money is then paid in 12 parts throughout the year. This is clearly laid out in the teachers terms and conditions which forms part of their contract in state schools. I don’t know how private schools deal with this.