Teachers pay

[Folloe]

I have what might be a stupid question. If teachers aren’t paid for their holidays but have a yearly salary does that mean:

teachers salary: 40k for working 39 weeks of the week

Is then equivalent to a job that’s 48 weeks of the year (4 weeks for holidays) would be 49.2k

Im not against teachers striking and asking for pay rise to come from the government rather than the school pot. This isn’t a teacher bashing thread.

Come and join us then

I’m a teacher. I’m striking. Tbh it’s not really about pay for me but it’s the only thing I am legally allowed to strike about. I think the pay is fair as I am at the top of the pay scale so 40k and have over 10 years experience so things are quicker for me to plan although the marking still kills me. Teaching for me is a bit like feast and famine. In term time I get up at 4am to plan and prepare for the day and I do marking and emails etc in the evenings for a couple of hours to keep on top of everything. I do have longer holidays than most professions though so it’s swings and roundabouts. I think it probably works out with the very long days in the terms but then the 6 weeks extra holidays. I do love my job and teaching in general so feel lucky about that. I’m striking because I want people to know how bad the current situation is in schools: literally no funding for anything…camhs support/ta etc. schools are dealing with massive energy bills (not under price cap) and I think it is disgusting that for the first time ever they have announced a 5% pay rise but not funded it from govt so schools have to fund it from already stretched resources. That tells you everything about how much this govt values your children’s education. I don’t get why some posters are so busy saying teachers don’t get paid for the holidays, like you I think it undermines the argument and doesn’t make any sense. Our pay is just pro rataed over the year. I work in an outstanding school with good behaviour and we can’t recruit. God knows what it is like in more difficult schools. Unsuitable graduates are being allowed on teacher trying courses—and passed because of not there will literally be no teachers! Most people in education I think have the same concerns seeing it from the inside

Teachers have historically accepted lower pay than similarly educated counterparts in part because of the enticement of longer holidays.

Now working conditions are so shite that the longer holidays isn't enough of an incentive to work as a teacher. So either pay increases or there will continue to be insufficient teachers to adequately educate the nation's children.

Rubbish

They get paid for 1265 DIRECTED hours AND as many extra hours as it takes to do the job professionally (slightly paraphrasing the formal terms used). Your headteacher can only direct 1265 hours of your time over that 195 days.

I know nothing about teaching or teachers but you need a Mick lynch type someone who properly articulates the issues. I heard some teacher on radio 4 a couple of weeks ago supposedly representing teachers and trying to explain the issues she was so waffly and unclear I was none the wiser.

There's the "reasonable hours to discharge professional duties" clause which basically means you work 50-60hrs a week.

After 20 years I am leaving at Easter. Oxbridge degree, really good at what I do and I just can't see myself making retirement in this job so I am off to do something else before I burn out totally or my family/marriage/health gives out.

If we actually got paid by the hour. We would/could be paid significantly more too. We aren't. We get what we get and have a lot of work to go with it.
I am not understanding your point.

Teachers have no scope for overtime/night shifts at all though (unless you’re part time I guess) - we’d work more days/hours for more money!

The issue is the country doesn't have enough teachers. It can't recruit enough teachers and the teachers it does have are leaving.

That means that the person standing in front of your kid's maths class may well be not a qualified maths teacher and possibly not even a qualified teacher. In some cases there may be no one in front of the class at all. The situation is getting worse, the last couple of years have been horrendous, and recruitment figures for next year are just disastrous.

This means that whatever teachers are paid, however you try to spin it as part time, great holidays, excellent pension, it is a worsening situation, not an improving one, therefore things urgently need to change.

What I am saying is teachers should stop saying we don’t get paid during the holidays

I have never heard a single teacher say that. Of course they get paid during the holidays.

They don’t get paid FOR the holidays, though.

technically their salary is higher than what they quote

But that technical/fictional salary doesn’t pay the bills.

I’ve left a school job.

I’ve received a huge pay rise and can counter the holidays on a buy back scheme.

I don’t have children hitting kicking or biting me or chairs thrown - I’m not sworn at or stood out side in the cold - I don’t deal with vicious parents or sick kids - win win.

I don't think it makes that much difference that much of the time. Getting paid £26k for 40 weeks work without holiday pay and getting paid £20k for 40 weeks work + £6k for 12 weeks of holidays both work out to the same total!

Where it makes a difference is if teachers begin/end jobs partway through a year, as the holidays aren't evenly distributed - this has come up on Mumsnet before.

@noblegiraffe I understand that as I read stuff on mumsnet but I dont think the country does and ultimately you need support and pressure from society as a whole so the government cant not do something.

What do you do now? Asking for inspiration.

The holidays aren’t worth it. Many people go into teaching as they think they can fit in the work around their families. On paper you can, but once reality hits it is often untenable without a good support network.

Back in the 90s, teachers would work in the summer with many going off to be tour guides in lovely European cities as an example. These days, teachers limp to the finish line in July and then collapse for a couple of weeks trying to recover from the demands of the year. They then may get a couple of weeks away and then two weeks of planning ready for September. That 6 weeks holiday suddenly isn’t really attractive.

Teaching can be an amazing career for loads of reasons but holidays don’t hold the same attraction they once did.

This question comes up whenever someone suggests changing the holidays and shortening the summer break.

I'm not against that hypothetically, but it usually comes unstuck when you point out that shorter holidays means more hours of directed time, which means paying the teachers more. People are so against teachers being paid more and/or having long holidays. It's not our fault that our contract works the way it does, nor that schools are closed in the holidays.

Some people go on as if the holidays only exist because teachers are work shy and want weeks off at a time.

I had a career before teaching and found it so much better being able to book holidays when I wanted. I could do a long weekend when I was feeling burnt out and just that could pick me up again.

I would swap extra weeks for flexibility without any question.

but it usually comes unstuck when you point out that shorter holidays means more hours of directed time, which means paying the teachers more.

This!

Plus the discussion about moving holidays around always ends up with some parents loving the long summer, others wanting more time at February half term or Easter for skiing, others preferring longer at October half term when it’s still sometimes warm. Others want a few weeks off at Whitsun and suggest reorganising the whole academic year/exam schedule to facilitate it. It won’t change as nobody can agree on a better alternative 😂

Lots of people hate the fact that teachers have longer holidays than them but still fail to acknowledge that recruitment/retention in teaching is terrible.

Yes I get paid a fair wage as we have a dual income even though we live in London. However if I took all of that home it would be ok. I spend a chunk of money every month on resources for my classroom because the budget cannot afford it. Everything is multiplied by 30 children so I have bought glue sticks, pencils, red card and paper for Chinese New year, colouring pencils, skin colour pencils and paper for a portrait project, washing up liquid..... now I know I don't have to but the children would miss out on learning which I can't allow. I can't think of another job where your personal money goes straight back out!

But we don't get paid for our holidays. We get 4 weeks holiday pay - just like everyone else. Every other school holiday counts as a school closure. We're not paid for it - however, our annual salary is divided by 12. If you go off on maternity or leave a contract, you'll see you do not get paid for holidays. It's posts like this that put teachers in a bad light. If you think our job is so great, you come and try it. I guarantee you'd be agreeing with everything we're asking for at the first week!

The OP asked a perfectly reasonable and simple question.

To me, the fact that a load of teachers have now jumped on calling her goody, and completely missing the point of her post and answering completely unrelated points says a lot about the profession.

PS. I live on the Isle of Man where teachers now get 36k as a starting salary, London fringe plus 4 percent across the board, and where our schools are the equivalent of a nice quiet school in a fairly nice area of the UK

NASUWT are still moaning and they are on strike again soon having already walked out in December and January. Greedy feckers

Lol! No. I worked holidays when I was a teacher (as in I was there in person for A level and GCSE students) I even lost a Sunday to invigilating. I work over my designated hours now but if I’m on leave my boss isn’t calling me unless it is an emergency and I’m not attending work unless my boss calls. Plus I get to decide my leave and go and see my DS’s plays etc.

Then there is the dealing with parents after school etc… so much time is stolen of your own time in teaching in a way that a non-teacher doesn’t really understand.

I miss teaching but I can’t see myself going back.

This with bells on. Literally says at the opening statement “supporting the strike” and not teacher bashing. Just a question on how teachers pay work.

Then teachers wonder why they get a bad rep at times…..bloody doing it to themselves!

I agree that the holidays are no compensation for the job! I've recently left my former role as a TA. The pay was SHIT and the expectations were so high. I had nothing left for my own kids after I'd dealt with the kids I worked with all day. There are a lot of very high needs children in mainstream schools ATM and some awful behaviour, including violence.

It is nice to get school holidays off, but tbh it's the worst time of year to be off work in some ways as everywhere is so busy. It saved money on holiday clubs but I also end up spending almost as much on activities for me and dcs where we won't be fighting other families for a seat or queuing for hours yada yada.

The classic comeback which is true is "if it's as easy, well paid and cushy as you say, why aren't you doing it"?

I would never be a teacher. Their job is even worse (to me) than TA. I'm sure it's rewarding as well, but that isn't enough. It's a bit like nurses being treated like crap and bosses just taking advantage of their calling/vocation. They'll stay late for free as they won't abandon patients etc. It is the same for teachers and their good will gets taken advantage of hugely.

We know our pay gets spread across the year so I don't know what 'teachers' you've been talking to...

My starting salary was £22k and that was in London. I was in school working at 7:30 every day and worked from home most evenings. Worked holidays and some of the weekend too. Probably evened out as minimum wage if I'm honest and I had a huge amount of responsibility (think along the lines of vulnerable young children in my class so liaising with psychologists etc).

I lasted 2 years in the classroom then moved over to supply which I enjoyed a lot more as I was able to leave work at work.

I'm a sahm now. I'd go back as a TA when my youngest starts school but never as a teacher.