Work won't give me a new contract

[Buddythecat1]

Hello,
I've name changed as I could do without previous posts being linked to me.

So I started a job a few months ago, I was on 25 hours a week.
Within the month I was doing 45 hours.
It's been 3 months of asking for my new contract, I asked again yesterday and my boss said she will talk to me about it that afternoon
Still waiting..

I feel as though I'm on a thin line (my own personal feelings) so I don't want to keep pushing for it

But what else can I do?

(Also gone above my boss and contacted their boss, with no reply)

I think you need to say to your manager sorry I can't work extra hours I will be working my contracted 25 hours however I'm open to becoming a full time employee if that contract is available. If it is then sign it before working beyond 25 hours. They are having their cake and eating it.

I work part time too and occasionally do extra to cover holidays etc. Surely when you go to take a week holiday it will be based on your part time hours? So for example I work a 3 day week so for a full week off I only need 3 days holiday (even though i sometimes do 5, i wouldn't need to take days hols to make a week). Does that make sense? so you would need less hours off to take a week off. I quite like the flexibility of the part time set up as you aren't obliged to do the extra hours and I only do them when it suits.

Sounds like they are taking advantage of you. You say you want full time to get extra holidays. But if you work what you’re contracted to, you’ll be working less.

@Buddythecat1, I don't understand why you think you need to work more hours to get more time off. If you work PT you already have a lot of (unpaid) time "off". You say your main concern is the leave rather than the pay - at the moment you have a PT contract , with PT leave allowance and with masses of OT. This gives the employer lots of flexibility in cutting back your OT if they need to.

Your holiday allowance of 5.6 weeks, will be 5.6 weeks of whatever your weekly hours are. You don't need to take leave on the days you are not contracted to work. You don't get more weeks worth if you work longer - I find it easier to think of PT leave allowance in hours.

By all means approach them about a full time contract. This would increase your leave allowance in terms of hours/days, but you'll need to use more of them to take a week off.

Surely you just say no to the extra hours and take holiday that way?

So if you want a two week holiday and you usually work 2.5 days a week (contract) then you need 5 days holiday for two weeks break and you say no thanks to the extra days that week.

Not sure what people aren't understanding here.

She wants full time so that holiday taken is paid. Not part time so that her extra time she now has is unpaid. She'd rather work more and have the benefits she is entitled to.

Her work are pulling a fast one. She is working the hours and they are giving her half the benefits. Not acceptable.

Your bigger problem is this employer is happy to break employment law. They are not taking account the hours you work ref holiday entitlement/pay. Talk to yoyr boss about that concern rather than chase a change in contract. Say you don't understand how it's worked out cos you're orking 45hours a week so holiday should reflect that.

Also, look for another job just in case, they sound shady.

The employer is not breaking the law re the entitlement unless op is already contracted to work the full time hours. At the moment it sounds like it’s overtime

When is your holiday year? What are ft hours?

Surely the answer is to give them a polite ultimatum - tell them that you need a full time contract including 20 days' holiday by the end of the week, failing which you will be reverting to your contracted hours next week?

Or just start looking for another job?

Runs 1st of Jan to 31st December if that's what you are asking
Currently 7.45 to 4.30pm
But my contract is 12pm to 5pm
Both 5 days a week

So from August to December you accrued approx 5/12x20 (5 hour days), so 8 ish days or 40 hours. Do either of your working hour patterns include an unpaid break? You are legally entitled to one for the new day length but not 5 hours. Do you want the longer hours?

That's also the other thing, because I'm on a 5 hour a day contract, there was never anything mentioned for breaks
I take half an hour for lunch but my managers are never aware of when my lunch break is or for how long

This is from the ACAS website:
"Overtime, commission and bonus
If you regularly get paid overtime, commission or bonuses, your employer must include these payments in at least 4 weeks of your paid holiday.

Some employers might include overtime, commission and bonus payments in your full 5.6 weeks' paid holiday (statutory annual leave), but they do not have to. This is because the law on overtime, commission and bonus payments being included in holiday pay is based on the EU Working Time Directive, which is 4 weeks' holiday only."

The OP has been told she is entitled to 11 days holiday and that this will be paid at a rate of 5 hours per day. - total number of hours 55

In fact, she is entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday and as she works 5 days per week, that means that she is entitled to 28 days holiday and.. as she is habitually working 8 hours per day, she is entitled to have these paid at a rate of 8 hours per day - total number of hours: 224.

I remember working for a manufacturing company many many years ago where shift premiums and regular overtime added significantly to individuals take home pay. We had situations where people didn't take holiday because they would loose on shift premium and guaranteed overtime.

Zero hours contracts have completely changed the working landscape.

This is a discussion on the Bear Scotland v Fulton ruling from 2014.

www.freshbusinessthinking.com/purpose/calculating-holiday-pay-following-the-bear-scotland-ruling/12651.article#:~:text=The%20Bear%20Scotland%20v%20Fulton,the%20calculation%20of%20holiday%20pay.

@Buddythecat1 as pp have said this is complicated as it’s several pieces of legislation and case law.

1. Working Time Regulations sets out your leave as you say Full Timers get 20 days I assume it’s 20 days plus BH. If you work 5 days a week you should get 20 days plus BH at your contractual daily hours rate of 5 hours.
2. When a Part timer works additional hours (up to full time hours) they are entitled to all the additional benefits including extra daily hours leave. This is as per Part Time Workers (Prevention of less favourable treatment)regulations. So if you are contracted to 5 hours a day and full time is 7.5 hours, if you are working 7.5 hours you are entitled to the same benefits as a full time employee irrespective of your contract.
3. Once a part timer works full time hours, anything over this is then overtime which as per Working Time Regulations, Part Time (prevention of less favourable treatment) regulations, Employments Right Act 1996 paras 221 to 224 (I think) plus Bear Scotland and other EATs any holiday pay must include overtime in the hourly rate calculation.

Write down a list of your weekly hours for each week worked from August 2022. Then contact ACAS you are being well and truly ripped off.

I'd suggest you start taking an hour for lunch as from today.

I wouldn’t do that as breaks don’t have to be paid. You are entitled to 30 mins break as a minimum - unpaid.

You need to stop going in for 7.45. Arrive at 12 and leave at 5.

OK I'm even more confused now
So I received my pay slip and I've been paid a days holiday @ 8 hours! Wtf

You're mixing up two completely different things.

20 days of a FT worker's annual leave is paid at a rate which incorporates overtime etc. This is what that ACAS guidance refers to.

This does not mean that a worker who works overtime is entitled to MORE leave. It means they are entitled to be paid more for 20 days of the leave they have. They are entitled to 5.6 weeks overall.

I am right but I can't be bothered to argue further with googlers. Some of us MN lawyers take a lot of time to try to help people with legal issues. Its really frustrating when people who don't actually know what they are talking about try to compete using their professional googling qualifications..

FWIW OP I think they've put you onto a new contract but they simply haven't confirmed it. They've paid you your leave on the basis of FT hours indicating they think they've moved you onto new contractual hours.

But I asked my manager about holidays and I was told I have 10 days to use this year..
9 now as they seem to have paid me for a random day

@Buddythecat1 go to HR and ask them to put in writing how they have calculated your annual leave.