Work won't give me a new contract

[Buddythecat1]

Hello,
I've name changed as I could do without previous posts being linked to me.

So I started a job a few months ago, I was on 25 hours a week.
Within the month I was doing 45 hours.
It's been 3 months of asking for my new contract, I asked again yesterday and my boss said she will talk to me about it that afternoon
Still waiting..

I feel as though I'm on a thin line (my own personal feelings) so I don't want to keep pushing for it

But what else can I do?

(Also gone above my boss and contacted their boss, with no reply)

No I started these hours mid August as the other person left
They need someone full time (not me assuming this, they genuinely do)

I've already asked them, my holidays will only be accrued on a part time basis
They will not give me any extra hours just because I am working them because I am not contracted to be doing those hours
Hence I've been non stop asking for a ft contract to get my holiday days I'm entitled to

My 3 days I got last year was paid at 15 hours
5 hours per day because that is what I used to work
But now I'm doing 8.5 hour a day

So are you saying you only had 15 hours of annual holiday entitlement between august - December? Ie you had three x 5hr days/shifts off work of your choosing?

Are you being paid an overtime rate or normal rate for hours over 25? Can you refuse to do the extra without the contract? I'd be calling acas.

Me too! Sounds like they may be pulling a right fast one here. - either that or it’s a dumb ass manager that can’t figure out basic HR (I’ve seen many)

Normal rate

They can't expect you to work all those extra hours and not accrue holiday. Something isn't right here.

Yes and any further holidays will only be paid at a rate of 5 hours

Don’t give them 20 hours a week of your life for free!! They’re not exactly seeming very quick to want to make the changes so why should you? Until something is officially promised then only do your contracted hours, if they want more of your time then they have to buy it.

I’d stop doing the full time hours then. It is of no benefit to you, so why should you do it. If they want a full time staff member, they need to pay properly

Okay, so you need to escalate this now.

Ask to see calculations of how your holiday entitlement is worked out and the policy on how they remuneration for overtime including holiday pay for overtime worked:

there’s two issues here

1. it doesn’t look like you are getting the correct holiday entitlement at all. It’s looking very under. A simple holiday calculator on gov.uk can show you this

2. when you are on holiday you aren’t getting remunerated correctly. (as you doing regular overtime any time you are off should be paid the same as when you are in - ie - you take - week off you should get paid 45 hrs not 25). If they don’t want to pay you for this when you take your holidays (how they should do it) then they need to let you take it as paid holiday at another time

Firstly this escalation should be with your line manager and you should put your request/complaint in writing (ie as an informal non complaint and tell them you are writing to raise an informal complaint at this stage) If they are unable to resolve this, ask to speak to someone who can either a more senior manager or HR and ask for a response in writing - I’m sure acas tell you you can ask for them to resolve your complaint in a set time scale but I could be wrong)

if they are unable to resolve this informally then you need to start looking at formal complaint procedures. If they are not meeting statutory entitlement they are in breach of not only contract but also employment law as you are being treated less favourably as a part time worker

Before you do any of that I would start reading up on ACAS, give them a call too- they are very helpful and they can help walk you through the correct processes because you need to follow them exactly to enable them to become involved.

i would also bring citizens advice in as they can help you with all the letters etc and proper advice as opposed to us lot here.

if you are in a union they can also help.

what I would absolutely NOT do is commit to a 45 hr contract. At the moment it’s suiting you to work OTime. Don’t contract yourself to it because as soon as you decide you want to step out of it they will end up being dicks about it. Take those hours on your terms - not theirs. But whatever you decide you need to start documenting this in writing because once you start something with a possibility of getting acas in and tribunals etc you only have a set time frame to do it.

Obviously I do need the money but in turn going back to 25 hours I'd get to see my children more, I wouldn't be as tired (takes me an hour to walk there, an hour back home)
The only reason I'm doing Ft is because I want the ft contract for the full 20 days off

You are entitled to 5.6 weeks of holidays - 28 days.

If you work 5 days a week, 5 hours per day - you are entitled to 28 days (including bank holidays) paid at your regular daily rate which per your contact would be 5 hours per day. Between August and December - you would be entitled to 5/12 *28 days or 11 days and a full 28 days for this year.

If, instead of working 5 hours per day, you are regularly working 8 hours per day, you are entitled to be paid at the daily rate that you are working - but this might not be applied until you have been doing these hours regularly for a year..

ACAS advice required..

Then simply stop working FT… you still get time off and it’s 140 hours per year

if they dispute this show them the holiday calculator on the gov website and tell them to get it right… yes it’s slightly less holidays than full time but in terms of your work life balance I’d go with part time if moneys not the motivational factor.

on top of this if you are able to do full days I’d actually change your shift pattern to weds thurs Friday full days so 25.5 hrs a week.

you’d still be entitled to approx 140 hours BUT bank holiday Mondays (the majority of bank holidays) won’t come out of this allowance as it’s not a normal working day leaving your more days to take when you want them, plus 3 days holiday out of your allowance actually gets you 12 days off because you’d finish the Friday night and not go back til a week the following Wednesday.

if they balk at you doing three full days instead of five short days tell them it’s actually going to benefit them because they’ll find it easier to recruit a job share or whatever and you are dropping the overtime so they need to find someone for those extra hours.

I just don't understand

You're working full time hours so you can get extra annual leave?

Just work part time hours then you get lots of non working hours each week

Your employer isn't going to formalise the full time contract that you want (it appears) so go back to working part time hours per your current contract

There’s so much incorrect advice here.

effectively the op is doing 29 contracted hours plus 20 hours overtime. Your holiday entitlement does NOT increase when you do overtime.

If your contracted hours increase your holiday entitlement will increase.

FT holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks (28 days). For a full time person the first 20 days is paid at a rate which includes ALL pay (so takes into account overtime, commission etc). The other days are paid at flat rate.

The OP is correct in that she needs confirmation that her contracted hours have been varied in order to be entitled to this new amount of holiday pay. The conversations/correspondence may already have committed to this but if not it needs to be confirmed.

If the op is simply working overtime she is not entitled to more holiday days.

I do this as my job.

Plus don’t use the acronym FTC. Lawyers and HR people use this to mean fixed term contract. This is NOT what you want. You want a contract with full time hours.

just tell them you’ll be going back to working your contracted part time hours unless they confirm in writing that you are now full time and confirm your new pay and benefits.

You’re sure you’re not being paid for it later on @Buddythecat1?

I work PT (21 hours over 3 days). I just had a week off at the start of January so for that week I’ll be paid 21 hours in my January pay. But I’ll then be paid extra in February - they basically look at the 4 weeks (or 6, I can’t remember which it is!) prior to my holiday and take an average of what hours I was working over and above my contract and I’m then paid for those hours in my February pay. No idea why that parts done a month later.
I agree with @User76765 though - your holiday entitlement doesn’t increase just because you’re working more hours.

What about the Bear Scotland ruling?

Bear Scotland is about how to calculate holiday pay not how to calculate holiday entitlement.

Holiday entitlement does not increase just because you work overtime.