Sajid Javid states patients should pay a fee for GPs and A&E visits

[MushMonster]

Just woke up this morning to this

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/20/sajid-javid-calls-for-patients-to-pay-for-gp-and-ae-visits

I so wish we could get early elections.
I had more than enough of this lot!
They will use the strikes to push in policies like this before we can chuck them out, following Thatcher's model to the letter.

They are all subject to financial scrutiny though to support eligibility.

Student loan is means tested on parental income. Parents are expected to make up the shortfall.

The on going energy support from April will be means tested.

Eye tests/ glasses are only free to people under age of 18 or on some form of benefit.

Chikd benefit is subject to reductions.

All these items add up. And now we suddenly have to find more money for paying for the nhs ( which we already pay for) So will means testing account for all the other items which are paid for by the working population? Or will it just be another payment we have to find out if fresh air?

Right, so If I pay to see a GP (I mean, pay again, I’ve already done that in tax), am I magically going to be able to get through on the phone? Will I be able to see a GP that day? Will I have to fight with a receptionist to get an appointment?

If I turn up at A&E, am I going to be triaged immediately and see a dr within an hour? Have all tests done quickly and efficiently?

No.

None of those things will happen will they?

But that’s not what’s important here. What’s important is that some Tory mate will be making money running the shitty pay for an appointment system.

I don't think it should be exempted for older people unless they also come into the category of very low pay too. My father for instance had a much higher income from rental and pensions than I was earning at the time doing a full time job.

why don't older people still working have to pay NI?

Irish here. It costs about €50 - €60 to see a GP unless you have a medical card. €80 is a bit of an exaggeration.

Pensioners, young children and people on low incomes get free healthcare through their medical card.

It works in the sense that you can get a GP appointment when you need it, often within a couple of hours. Waiting days or even weeks for a GP appointment is unheard of here.

The public hospital system has its issues. There is a charge to attend A&E but this is waived if you have a referral from your GP. Care is free after that but there can be long waits for consultant appointments, scans, etc. Urgent care like cancer treatment is generally good. The main issue at the moment is overcrowding in winter.

Most decent employers offer health insurance as a benefit to staff, or you can choose to buy it yourself. Prices start from around €500 per year but a really good level of cover would cost about €1000. This allows you to use the private hospitals.

And l would expect to see a reduction in tax or NI if we had to pay. We’re already paying, it’s just this government have destroyed it.

We do already pay but not enough. When I had my first job my basic tax rate was 33%. It's now 20%. How is this sustainable? People also don't want to pay for car parks in hospitals or for prescriptions. They don't want to pay for social care. They don't want to pay inheritance tax. They want cash in hand.

It's incredibly hard to prevent tax loopholes for big multinational companies. This is what we got for making it so easy for foreign companies to buy up our services and private companies, when they called it inward investment or privatisation but it was really selling off the family silver. So taxing the rich is not an answer. Plus the Tory government that we keep voting in are funded by these non doms that benefit from the tax system just as it is.

So in practice we have to fund it from people with normal incomes. Everyone who isn't on benefits has to pay a bit more otherwise we're screwed. And if you bought into the idea you can somehow magically pay less tax and still have better public services, more fool you.

Gosh, yes of course.

I should be thinking of the Tory mates and their multi million pound contracts for thinking up and trying (and failing) to implement this shitshow..

Fucking madness, isn’t it?

Only a reduction for those who pay?

What about those who will be exempt because it’ll be a fair proportion

There’s no way any party will get votes from middle / lower income if you ask them the further subsidise non payers

Even if Labour try they wouldn’t convince people to pay more if they are low users

The problem with the NHS is that it just doesn’t help the sick or injured! It’s trying to be everything for everyone

You can get breast reduction/enlargements, weight loss surgery, IVF and gender realignment! ( and lots of other non illness and injury surgeries)

Now these surgeries are absolutely fine if you need them after a major illness but even though this post will upset a few on here, the NHS wasn’t introduced for that! It was introduced for illness and injury and if those extra procedures have to be done on the NHS they either need to rebuild the NHS from the ground up or those non essential surgeries should require a nominal fee to be paid!

I don’t know the answer to be honest but there’s a lot more going on in the NHS than treating the sick or injured like it was set up to do! fat cat salaries, ridiculous training courses, money thrown at ridiculous projects plus non essential surgeries are only the tip of the iceberg and need resolving.

The NHS and it’s staff are amazing and an asset to our country but it’s definitely time to sit and go through the reason for its existence in the 21 century and somehow change it to reflect the modern era

By the way, in Ireland our taxes do go towards funding the public system.

I'm not surprised the NHS is struggling, it's very difficult to offer an entirely free health service while maintaining high standards. Especially when people don't value the service and take the piss with appointments.

Of course he does, he's probably got some rich incompetent posh mate lined up to take the contract for rolling out the payment system.

You can get breast reduction/enlargements, weight loss surgery, IVF and gender realignment! ( and lots of other non illness and injury surgeries)

I had a breast reduction on the NHS. I was crippled with pain in my upper back and unable to work on numerous occasions. It was suggested to me by a senior physio as it would cost the nhs less than treating my constant pain in terms of medication, pain clinic visits, etc etc. It also meant l could carry on working and pay tax.

It hapoened in 2016, and my pain has been transformed. I must be costing the nhs a lot less.

So it’s not all illness and injury, it’s also cost benefit and quality of life.

We do already pay but not enough. When I had my first job my basic tax rate was 33%. It's now 20%. How is this sustainable?

What was your salary in your first job vs now?

So in practice we have to fund it from people with normal incomes. Everyone who isn't on benefits has to pay a bit more otherwise we're screwed.
What's a 'normal income'? Again how many people will think, sod this, I'm not going to stay at my minimum wage stressful job, paying out for everything, and other people's health care to have to pay again for anything I need, oh but wait. I'll have to miss a day's pay to get to any medical appointment so they are then. Will it still be called the 'national' health service if its only available to people on benefits? Surprise surprise it's like the American system then? People are unlikely to be happy that they are going to have to be

1. Paying out for the nhs for solely for others to use
2. Paying out again for themselves to receive health care.
3. Still losing pay/Leave from their job to attend the appointment

Everyone who isn't on benefits has to pay a bit more otherwise we're screwed.

if you include pensioners are there really enough people who don't receive benefits to fund it?

@MichelleScarn exactly & many of this people will be working in the NHS, more will just leave.

Honestly, I can’t see many people who would be willing to pay to get the same shit system as now.

All that would happen is that surgeries would be inundated with people saying “If I have to pay £20, I am seeing a GP today” and the same with A&E. If people are paying, they are not going to quietly sit and wait for 12 hours in pain.

Ive long been an advocate for paying more tax for public services. Im a public service worker in statutory services so Im well aware of the need to fund them properly through taxation

So cut out your rudeness to me.

@EarthPunchingBack

"It works in many other parts of Europe and they pay higher taxes too. We are so obsessed with paying as little as we can get away with here that we can no longer support our public services. We need to really scrutinise how the Northern European models are run"

Yep, being in one such European system I'd agree with that.

If change is needed in the UK there are certainly more gentle options available than the US model....

I don’t think there are many ‘normal incones’ It will be the already super. Squeezed middle funding it.

@notimagain my experience of the European system is that it is far more efficient than here.

Everyone always assumes it is either the nhs or the USA way of doing things. We need to look at Europe and Australia etc..... and look at that as a blueprint. It works plenty of other places and like others have said they have a lot higher taxation system as well.

Also the UK has more inequality than other developed countries, that needs to be addressed. It's a mess

And I too had a procedure on the NHS not relating to being sick or injured and it changed my life but I realise that I was lucky and anywhere else probably world wide I would have had to pay for it! As I said in my post we are very lucky to have it but thought needs to go into how to turn it into a 21st century business and not stuck in the 40s