Cultural circumcision in babies/young boys

[junipermarten]

1 of my DS's is circumcised due to a medical issue, he was 3 at the time and it was bloody horrific.

When he was going through it, a good friend gave me tips on after care and offered the number of a private doctor. She has sons who were circumcised shortly after birth for religious reasons.

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons.

It got me thinking about the high % of boys in the US who are circumcised for cultural reasons, just over 2/3rds. Why is it so prevalent there?

I was having a look at % of male pop per country and the highest were mainly Islamic, but also Samoa was almost 100% which surprised me but apparently its cultural as opposed to religious (I think).

As @Xrays says, it tells society that we find it unacceptable. And legislation like that works - given time. Not so long ago, smoking was socially acceptable. Now it isn't. Sometimes the law has to play the long game.

I agree with the person who said people should just be honest and own the fact that they do it for cultural and religious reasons and stop pretending it’s for the “medical benefits”. In 1st world countries the benefits are so little it’s pointless and not worth the risk of surgery. I mean, you’re cutting a part of your baby off to slightly reduce the risk of a UTI which in themselves are rare in males anyway and much more common in females.

There’s no way doctors would be proposing this be done to babies without the cultural/religious tie. And in Europe where there’s lots of preventive medicine it isn’t recommended.

Also pointing out that doctors get their sons done is just an appeal to authority fallacy. There are plenty who don’t get it done and see no reason for it.

Yes @ThomasinaLivesHere and I get the impression from talking online to people like my American FB friend that it isn't even religious or cultural but more aesthetic. She thinks foreskins 'look gross' and wants to save her boy from rejection and ridicule.

It recently occurred to me that , between shaving the vulva and male circumcision , many Americans never see an intact adult human being of the opposite sex. It's a bit sad I think.

There's a whole episode of sex and the city where Charlotte is dating an uncircumcised man. They way she talks about it is disgusting.

The man gets circumcised because he's sick of the ridicule he gets from women! Then she dumps him!

I hate that particular episode

Utter BS. Of course you can use descriptive words to criticise religious practices. It is barbaric to chop off healthy parts of a baby's body. That's not inciting hatred! Religion being a protected characteristic means you can't discriminate against someone, such as not giving them a job, based on their religion. You can think what you like about it - thankfully.

I can’t understand mutilating a baby because of religious tradition (and peer pressure from dead people). Why don’t we start lopping off earlobes? I mean, they’re pointless. How about the little finger on the left hand? We’d manage.

I’m curious about why this is such a strong held tradition because it’s in the Old Testament. So is not plaiting hair or wearing mixed materials. Do people adhere to this also? (Rhetorical, of course they don’t)

Actually some Orthodox Jews won't wear mixed materials and there are labs that look up fabric composition if they're not sure

I don't think Orthodox Jewish practice is anything to aspire to given how they treat their LGBT people, their women, anyone who leaves the faith. That's the problem - faith is one thing, what people do in the name of faith is quite another.

That's the problem - faith is one thing, what people do in the name of faith is quite another.

Well put @pointythings

How does that benefit the UK?

In the long run it will benefit whole generations of men who are not being needlessly cut at birth, and it will save the NHS (if we still have one) money because it will not need to provide healthcare for those men who have adverse physical or mental health consequences from an unnecessary procedure. That do you?

Sadly, I think it will drive the barbaric and unnecessary operation underground, and we may get more botched operations requiring attention from the NHS.

@RampantIvy in the short time that is a likely outcome. In the long term, culture change will happen. None of it is going to have any effect unless the law has teeth though - and that also means updating the law against FGM so that there are painful consequences to both the practitioners and the parents involved.

It isn't just another rule like plaits/fabrics. It is a symbol that you're part of the covenant with Abraham and that you identify as being part of that promise with God.
No that I am defending it on religious grounds but it isn't just another rule.

Absolutely this.

How much money will be saved?

What do you suggest? Checking children re-entering the country?
Prison sentences?

Well, current sentencing guidelines for FGM give a maximum sentence of 14 years, so that would be a pretty good start. The NSPCC page on FGM has some good ideas, maybe you should read it.

As for money saved, I don't know how much the NHS is currently spending on supporting men who are suffering the aftereffects of MGM, so some research would be indicated. But ultimately it isn't about the money, is it? It's about the prevention of harm.

You do realise there is already good legislation in place around FGM? A bit of copying, editing and pasting is all that’s needed to make those rules work for male circumcision.

Bit odd. I mean you can't be Jewish unless your mother is. And she didn't have a foreskin. No offence meant.

So much (very) thinly veiled anti-semitism in this thread.

@Abhannmor you can convert, and if you are male you would be expected to be circumcised. But yes it is odd.

@Flowersandtattoos examples? Because criticism of certain practices is not anti-semitic, Islamophobic, racist or anti-American. It is the practices which are the issue, not the faith.

By calling the practice which is part of the Jewish covenant with G_d 'barbaric' and 'odd' and saying it should not be acceptable within the UK the posts are making a comment on the Jewish community as a whole which is downright hostile and antisemitic. I don't have the time to trawl through, nor the desire, but if you can't see it, then I feel sorry for you.