Cultural circumcision in babies/young boys

[junipermarten]

1 of my DS's is circumcised due to a medical issue, he was 3 at the time and it was bloody horrific.

When he was going through it, a good friend gave me tips on after care and offered the number of a private doctor. She has sons who were circumcised shortly after birth for religious reasons.

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons.

It got me thinking about the high % of boys in the US who are circumcised for cultural reasons, just over 2/3rds. Why is it so prevalent there?

I was having a look at % of male pop per country and the highest were mainly Islamic, but also Samoa was almost 100% which surprised me but apparently its cultural as opposed to religious (I think).

I don’t suppose you could link to the research that shows that? That shows those proven health benefits? Across the community, and that widespread circumcision leads to better outcomes than dealing with issues when they arise?

Health benefits for the community? Do these willies become magic when you chop the end off? FWIW my DH is circumcised, so I shall be sure to thank him for his community service

The proven health benefits I’ve read about are from third world countries and are mostly on sexually transmissions of diseases in places with no condoms or stigma on their use. Also in places with issues with hygiene and lack of clean water. Condoms and regular cleaning remove the need for circumcision. Plus it’s not something I worry about for my baby.

Where’s the evidence showing the men in first world countries are healthier for having it done?

Yes its recommended for HIV prevention in the absence of condom use/availability. I've experience working indirectly with WHO and safe male circumcision in a developing country. Even then it's not suggested that circumcision is the ideal solution (abstinence, monogamy and condoms are preferable).
It's absurd to extend this reasoning to healthy babies in more developed nations.

I could, but I'm not going to. Google it, there's loads of information from many different sources out there.

As I said before, many of our doctors, scientists, journalists, politicians and royalty have been circumcised. Why are they not complaining or campaigning to ban it?

It's because it is not a problem.🤷‍♀️ In huge parts of the world, being circumcised is an unproblematic norm.

Big shock. “Do your own research”

I believe the onus to prove what they’re supporting is the right thing to do lies with those proposing to chop bits of children off. Not with those who support leaving them intact

you’re literally asking the people who say leave babies alone to prove that is medically better than taking an action. The burden of proof is always on those proposing an action. More so if that action is an amputation for preventative reasons.

@FloydPepper, posters above you have kindly provided links.

Given that this is a well researched and documented, minor procedure with proven health benefits, why do you want it banned

Sorry, not links but evidence. Honestly, it's really easy to find the benefits for yourself.

It does not have proven health benefits across populations where there are not specific issues. Even where there are, these benefits can be obtained by other methods. Advocating the wideaspread amputation of a body part for preventative reasons does not stack up medically.

if you advocate it for religious reasons (god told me to do it) or cultural reasoned (we’ve always done it) then own that and argue that. Do not claim mass circumcision is the best medically proven effective prevention of anything!

You’ve had that answer many times now boots, this is the digital equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears saying lalalalala.

you've been given many valid reasons, it’s been well researched and documented that not circumcising is more healthy in the short and long term unless there is a medical necessity.

As I said, big shock. You simply say “do your own research” while advocating a medical procedure you claim is necessary. The onus to show the intervention is beneficial resides with those advocating the intervention.

No I haven't. What are the benefits to banning male circumcision in the UK?

Blimey. Look

you show the benefits to chopping bits off! Not do it and expect others to prove it was the wrong thing to do!

You are the one who wants the law changed @FloydPepper. You give the arguments.

Floyd you’ve made many intelligent rational points already, as have others referring to issues of consent, hygiene, pain, I think boots is trying to lead a merry dance now and there’s nothing more to be gained by entertaining it. They clearly have no good reasons and so are just trying to irritate. Unsuccessfully 😆 poor thing.

You’re right. I’m not going any further with the “you prove it, no you prove it”

I just wish they (like other advocates) would own what I believe is really going on, that it’s a religious or cultural driver and the medical “proof” is secondary and in their mind unnecessary. It’s floundering around for a reason, as they will not admit the real reason has no basis in science or reason.

The argument is that it does not have any medical benefit across a whole community.

The thing is, nothing, no ifs buts or coconuts, makes this okay. The positives (if you can call them that) put forward don’t matter because it’s medically unnecessary for the vast majority of men. That’s the bottom line. If someone does need their foreskin removing because they develop an issue with it later on then of course that’s understandable because it’s a treatment. Do we start removing children’s tonsils at birth because they are often the source of discomfort and infections? Even though most people live with them fairly happily? Or what about whipping out an appendix? Or a few baby teeth…? All fairly easy, routine procedures that only take a few days to heal from.

People would rightly be horrified. And this is just as horrific.

Intact America and Bloodstained Men are two of the bigger protest groups of men speaking up. To all those who are saying "if it's that bad, why aren't men protesting?" They are. Now will you listen to them??

As I've mentioned, there's a good documentary on netflix, "American Circumcision" where you can hear the voices of the men affected. I recommend it if you're one of the people here claiming that "it's fine"

Passing legistlation is a lengthy, expensive business with long lasting repercussions. How will passing a law banning male circumcision benefit the UK?

My father was circumcised as a baby in the 50s in the UK but his father was Jewish and wanted it done even though my dad was raised catholic by his mum.

Eeexactly. 😂

You say that only circumcised men have the moral right to advocate a ban. Fine. Then on your view only an uncircumcised man should advocate in favour of circumcision. 😉

You have confirmed that you're not circumcised and not a man.

You haven't got an argument. But not importantly, you haven't got a cock!

More importantly....

And the fact that it’s a horrific thing to do to your child.

It sends a message that we, as a nation, find it completely unacceptable.