Cultural circumcision in babies/young boys

[junipermarten]

1 of my DS's is circumcised due to a medical issue, he was 3 at the time and it was bloody horrific.

When he was going through it, a good friend gave me tips on after care and offered the number of a private doctor. She has sons who were circumcised shortly after birth for religious reasons.

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons.

It got me thinking about the high % of boys in the US who are circumcised for cultural reasons, just over 2/3rds. Why is it so prevalent there?

I was having a look at % of male pop per country and the highest were mainly Islamic, but also Samoa was almost 100% which surprised me but apparently its cultural as opposed to religious (I think).

A pp tried to imply that any criticism of circumcision was anti semitic. I don’t think a single person who feels this act is wrong has linked it to solely the Jewish people and if I’m honest I think it’s a deflection tactic.

we can criticise a practice without criticising a whole religion, and that practice is widespread elsewhere too.

@Flowersandtattoos I don't care who is cutting bits off newborn babies or why. It's wrong because there is no good medical reason for it. FGM is also done for cultural and religious reasons - so why are you not OK with that?

Something is not sacrosanct just because it is part of a religious or cultural tradition. If you cannot see that perhaps it is your moral compass that needs adjusting.

Religious practice of all kinds has changed through the ages. Nothing is immutable. Nor should it be.

@FloydPepper 👏👏👏this.

It is indeed a deflection. A cheap one at that. Every tradition should be held up to scrutiny and assessed, in every faith and every culture. If we do not question, we do not make progress.

No one is forcing your boys to be circumcised, and the nature of the criticism is anti-semitic, particularly the demand for it to be banned, but I don't argue with anti-semites. The world has a serious problem right now, and I am shocked that this is allowed on this site.

@Flowersandtattoos HOW is the nature of the criticism anti-semitic? People - myself included - are simply saying that circumcision is wrong unless it is for medical reasons. It is wrong no matter whether the person having it done to their child is Jewish, Muslim, Christian or completely non-religious. It. Is. Wrong. It is just as wrong as circumcising girls. And yes, it should be banned because it is being done for a non-medical reason. For everyone, irrespective of faith or none.

If you think that's anti-semitic (or Islamophobic or whatever), do please report.

If you believe anything that has been said on t hi s thread is anti semitic then please report it and it will get deleted. I’ve posted on a few threads about anti semitism and am strongly of the view that it is unacceptable. I’ve called it out where I’ve seen it. I have been quite vocal.

i reject that criticism of circumcision is anti semitic. Many other faiths and cultures practice it and I have not seen a single comment on this thread that criticises any of those religions or cultures.

please, address the challenges to a practice many feel is unnecessary and cruel. Don’t try and divert attention.

No one is forcing your boys to be circumcised, and the nature of the criticism is anti-semitic, particularly the demand for it to be banned

How? I don't care which religion or culture does it, it's still wrong.

People should not be allowed to remove healthy parts of a persons body without their consent. I don't even agree with piercing the ears of a baby, I believe it is mutilation.

Don't worry I have reported. The only religion that insists on circumcision is Judaism, and so it is criticism particularly pointed at the Jewish community. The call to ban it and saying there is 'no place for it in British society' is inferring that there is no place for Jewish people in British society, which is unforgiveable.

Would you mind pointing out to me where I and others have been anti semitic. I’m always open to where language I use can be clearer, or can be misconstrued

Banning it would make the UK hostile to the Jewish community.

It's not a ban of adults are still able to freely choose to have it done..

The benefits to the UK of banning circumcision are:
It sends a message to the world that the UK regards male circumcision as unacceptable.
It will save the NHS some money.
It will result in long term health benefits for future generations of men.

What are the costs of a ban?

As Jesus was Jewish and therefore circumcised, there are Christians who believe that circumcision is important to be closer to God.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_circumcision shows the practice is a bit wider than you seem to think it is.

There is only one religion that demands it - Judaism. You are grasping at straws here. The antisemitism in this thread is undeniable.

I’ve asked you to show it to me. I do t see it but I’m open to learning. Are you going to show me where you believe it is?

Lots of the Jewish community would emigrate because such a ban would create a hostile environment for the Jewish community. It sends out a message that you cannot practice your culture/religion in the UK. And presumably many in the Muslim community would feel the same way.

I don't support infant circumcision myself but realistically there's no way to ban it in a multicultural society without certain communities feeling that their culture is under attack.

I don't respond to people who are aggressively anti Semitic and hide it behind a disingenuous front. . I have made my position clear, and you are just sea-lioning. The entire thread needs to go, as it positions Jewish culture as 'inferior' and 'barbaric' - both words used here. I've reported the thread and posts, but with the state of anti semitism in the UK (and the world at large right now) I am not holding out any hope that anything will be done about it.

I was being genuine asking for you to show me where I was going wrong. I have never in my life been accused of being aggressively anti semitic and I completely refute that.

however as you have no intention of engaging beyond unfounded insults I will not engage with you again.

As a parent, I believe it is my responsibility to heavily scrutinize every decision I make for my child without her consent. Some are simple like changing a nappy and cleaning her properly. Some are more complex like getting vaccinations by the government and her physician. With a very young child, none of these decisions can truly wait until she is capable of making them herself, so I must make them on her behalf.

body modification for non-medical reasons can wait until the individual is old enough to consent. Religious circumcision could take place at 18 when a man can independently choose it for himself.

there is no need to ban religious circumcision. It should just be restricted to individuals who can give informed consent.

@FloydPepper

I mentioned The Protocols of the Elders of Zion quite a while ago on this thread.

I suggest you look up that execrable book so you'll know the tradition your words and tone here fit into.

"The burden of proof is always on those proposing an action"

@FloydPepper - your statement there ^

You need to prove the necessity for legislation to ban it in the UK.

You also need to prove why a practice that dates back many thousands of years needs to be immediately stopped.

You're proposing an action that woukd change a long standing status quo, after all.

I’m American and don’t like it.

My DH is circumcised, as is practically every other male I know (well, you know, not that I know what every other male has in their pants!)

My oldest DS is. (He’s 15). He was my first baby and was unplanned, I had horrific depression all throughout my third trimester until he was 4 months old, and I was just completely bewildered and out of it right after his birth. I had just turned 25, which isn’t so young at all but really felt like it at the time. The pediatrician who came to see me was an older man who had a very firm, no nonsense type of demeanor about him and he basically dismissed my feeble protests in the most patronizing way possible, and more or less insisted it be done. I didn’t put up as much of a fuss as I should have, because I felt young and stupid and like I knew absolutely nothing, and here was this man who knew EVERYTHING. 🙄 I really regret it, even though DS never had any complications.

With my youngest DS (he’s 7), I was much more sure of myself. When my doctor brought it up near the end of my pregnancy, I just said absolutely not and to please not even mention the word to me again. She did not, nor did she allow anyone else to 🙂

I don’t know how it will be when he gets older, if he’ll feel “odd” or whatever, but so far it’s never been an issue.

Not religious here at all.

My husband is circumcised, he insisted he wanted our son to be done 'just because', there was no reason except that he was done.

I was against chopping body parts off our baby, I showed him a couple of videos and told him if he was happy to hold our son for the procedure I would consider it.

Amazing how fast he back tracked when he considered having to take an active role in it.

Excellent post.

Utter shite.
Claiming this is anti semitic is a pathetic attempt to shut down debate. There has not been 1 post on here that has been anti any religion specifically.
It’s very telling that instead of trying to defend mutilating babies. (Impossible) this person is complaining about something that isn’t happening as a diversion