Yet another person killed from a dog attack.. what is going on

[icelolly12]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64254413

Something needs to be done...reports of dog neglect taken more seriously, harsher prison sentences... any other ideas?

Awful, awful way to die, and makes me think twice about passing dogs off lead on walks.

Everything you just said cements my view that your love for dogs is blind and therefore absolutely nothing will make you understand my viewpoint. Which is fine, it's ok to have different views.

It certainly is ok to have different views and I love and Agree To Disagree, especially here on MN.

However you haven’t actually addressed any of the points I made, just repeatedly asserted that all the dogs caught up in this situation should be immediately destroyed - no questions asked and that “blind love” 🙄 is what drives my opinions despite my detailed explanation of my background and why I think as I do. It displays a clear lack of critical thinking and shows it is “blind” ignorance and dislike for dogs which drives your opinion so therefore not really worth valuing.

As someone with experience of walking would you say any walker, and equally the owners, would be highly irresponsible for allowing such an incompatible mix of breeds and sizes to be walked together by one person? Whether they were the owner of a Leonberger or a Dachshund they should not be putting their dogs in this situation.

That being the case the dogs should not be returned to their owners, especially if the owners are very likely, due to work commitments or financial restrictions, to blindly put the traumatised dogs into unsuitable group walk situations again.

@BethDuttonsTwin thanks for the info. Do you have to be registered in your area or was it just something "extra" that you did?

I don't think dog walkers are in fact the problem here - yes this poor woman should absolutely not be walking that many dogs but surely the vast majority of dog attacks we hear about aren't through this sort of activity? It's private owners who can't control their own animals?

Clearly it would be lovely if all dog walkers were as knowledgeable and responsible as @BethDuttonsTwin but what do we do about the others? If we require licence / registration and insurance - how is this enforced? Borrow my Doggy is huge and irresponsible dog owners who are looking to cut costs would access unlicensed dog walkers to save a few quid. Who would enforce the dog walkers getting a licence? Our already over stretched public service can hardly be asked to take on this task?

And if we ask owners to have a dog licence - how do you enforce those who don't? Do you remove their dogs from them, who houses all these dogs without licences? Or do we have +++ dogs in kill kennels?

There do seem to be a lot of blase dog owners and I say that as a dog owner myself. I've got a nice natured Labrador and I often walk her off the lead, as she is well behaved and knows not to cross roads until ordered. On narrow pavements, or crowded areas, I walk her on the lead.

I've had several dogs and she's the only one I've been able to walk off lead.

She's very wary of other dogs, having been attacked a number of times. In the summer, a lurcher ran over and grabbed her, she growled and snapped, the owner came over and she shouted at me to get my dog under control! She'd just been standing still, sniffing a wall.

The latest DM report is not helpful. They are clearly running with that storyline as it’s a huge dog and not a lot of people will have heard of the breed.

If you have never met a Leonberger before, please don’t let this reporting make you scared if you come across one in the future.

Also, any dog that barks or growls is not necessarily a danger. It is a “good” thing that they do this. It is their way of letting a human know that they are not comfortable with a situation. It is a clear communication from them, it does not mean that they will go on to attack.

I remember watching a bit of the programme with the owner of the leonberger getting her puppy. She was a beautiful dog but the owner was warned that having a huge dog in a tiny flat in a built-up area was a bad idea. Nevertheless, she was determined that she wanted a massive dog.

I feel sorry for the dog walker but also for the dogs. They all seem such unlikely breeds to attack in this way. I can't help but think that they were let down in the way they were being looked after. My brother uses a professional dog walker who is also a neighbour. She has a policy of only taking three small dogs or two larger dogs for a walk at a time. There is no way you can be responsible for more dogs than that in a public place. I know someone who has five dogs but they are lucky enough to have their own land for walking.

First and foremost, obviously this is an horrific tragedy for all concerned - walker, her family, witnesses, owners of the dogs.

How many dogs would a responsible dog walker take? I've been in our local park and seen 10+, with the walker having absolutely no control. Obviously this isn't responsible but makes it financially manageable for both walker and owner I'm guessing?

Agree it may make it more financially viable for the owner. It makes it absolutely 'easy money' to a ridiculous level for irresponsible idiot dog walkers, when you multiply what the owners are paying.

I am always amazed that anyone will send their dogs out for pack walks with dog walkers, even at four dogs from different households to a walker, unless it is in a private field. They could be the most responsible walker in the world, with excellent control of their charges - but that does not take in to account external influences, particularly other dogs.

On the odd occasion I need to use a dog walker, they take my dogs only. Usually this is when I'm in the house, but snowed under with work, but I certainly know they are on their own and walking from my house, not throwing my dogs in a van with loads of others. On the odd occasion I'm not at home, my Ring doorbell confirms the same.

I feel very sorry for the owners of these dogs, I can't imagine how I'd feel if one were mine and never being sure what part they'd played in a tragedy born of irresponsible behaviour from the walker, who has paid the ultimate price for it.

Oh, and I also don't think there is any racism involved in the focus on the Leonberger's owner. Presumably no-one forced her to show her irresponsible dog ownership on national TV, it just makes her a very easy target now.

One article says they was at least 4 medium sized dogs in the group as well as the large one. The small dogs are not really a issue here. The big dog was strong enough to pull her over. The collie I assume is a border collie, and they can be aggressive. But we don't know until the police give the full details.

So was it the dog walker who was attacked by her own dogs. The reports are confusing. Perhaps a law that no more than two dogs can be walked at once to prevent this happening again. Absolutely horrific.

The poor woman has met with a terrible, early and preventable death. No way should she have taken all those dogs out together.
I walk my gsd alone because he is young and still being trained, I think that even though my other dog, a Staffie, is excellent on and off lead, I need all my attention on the big, young dog. Maybe I will always have to walk them separately and if so, I will. He is calm and passive but big and strong and if there were a problem I don’t want to be struggling to control both dogs who are a, albeit small, pack.
I’m an experienced dog owner and recognise my limitations.
Unfortunately some dog walkers exceed their ability and this poor woman has paid with her life.

Someone’s dog who didn’t participate should be put down? Are you for real?

One article says they was at least 4 medium sized dogs in the group as well as the large one. The small dogs are not really a issue here. The big dog was strong enough to pull her over. The collie I assume is a border collie, and they can be aggressive. But we don't know until the police give the full details.

The report I've seen specifically says it was four medium sized dogs seen attacking the victim. Which on the face of it would potentially exonerate the Leonberger who no one would describe as medium sized, and also the dachshunds. The collie would be the prime suspect based on this, possibly the cockapoo, and the dogs we don't know the breed of.

But agree we don't know the details and should defer final judgment at this stage.

The Leonberger is the natural assumption due to size, and being on a show about badly behaved dogs. It doesn't mean its guilty of the attack but the conjecture that it was the large dog makes some sort of sense. For all we know the Leonberger toppled her over and other dogs attacked.

I don't know the law on this, or the advice of a behaviourist but I assume any dog that was part of the attack (even if a minor bite) would be pts. Any dog that was there, but didn't bite, I doubt would be pts but I suppose that depends on the level of trauma the dogs suffered, and if it impacted their behaviour long term. I guess that's what being assessed now - any dog that shows aggression to humans would, I presume, be pts.

It’s partly this issue of dog walkers overloading. Understandably to maximise income but there needs to be regulation which limits this as it’s dangerous for both humans and dogs. The poor woman in this case was walking 8 dogs which is a crazy ratio.

So tragic for the poor woman
Also very sad for the dog owners, most of the dogs were probably innocent.
I think they should have them all assessed by a behaviourist plus ask their normal vets for a character reference.
Any that get a good reference should be returned to owners with the proviso that they be walked singly on a leash from here on.
It's very unlikely that she happened to be walking seven aggressive dogs and there were no near witnesses to who was doing what.
I did see the bbc puppy program and the leonberger was a stand out at the time for the stupidity of the owner . I think she had some aggression issues with it biting her legs as a young dog, probably because it was bored silly in a tiny flat, but I could be misremembering that.

most of the dogs were probably innocent
of course they are, they are dogs!!
lions & tigers are also innocent, ie not capable of making moral choices
any dog that has attacked a human needs to be destroyed, we dont need a judge & jury for it
just euthanize

I've just checked our council website - dog walker licence is for up to 8 dogs!

The Leonberger is the natural assumption due to size, and being on a show about badly behaved dogs

It was a show about coping with a new puppy rather than badly behaved dogs per se. And it's getting the headlines partly because it's the only whose name and owner's name we know, as well as size.

I was talking to some today who’s sister has 3x Leonburgers, apparently she walks them one at a time even though they’re well behaved. She says they are too big to risk one getting scared, etc and trying to take off, she would need both hands for it.

Yet another lovely doggy just being friendly today…..

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-mauled-american-bulldog-horror-28959991#comments-wrapper

Seriously scary. Over 8000 attacks a year from dogs apparently. This is an issue we can do something about with strict rules. It’s perplexing to me that people can just wander about with predators…..

Tell me - if there was (say) an apparent fire in an enclosed space, and people rushed in a panic to the exit, and someone fell and was crushed underfoot and died, would you expect all of the people who pushed past them, or ran over them, to be charged with manslaughter?

I wouldn't - because this was perceived as a life-or-death situation and people panic and don't think clearly.

It is the same with dogs. It appears that these dogs were in some way panicked and terrified - they were trapped and will have been blindly snapping at anything/anyone they perceived as a threat. They may even have bitten at each other.

This attack was purely situational and is unlikely ever to be repeated. Fear makes all of us behave out of character.

Has anyone used k917 dog deterrent spray? I was thinking about buying some to protect my children on walks x

This is an interesting sentence in that report

“The male owner of the white American bulldog was arrested at the scene on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm with intent.

"Grievous bodily harm WITH INTENT" suggests that there was something deliberate about the attack - not just a random aggressive dog/unexpected attack. This is more than "just" an out-of-control/aggressive dog, surely?

The article also says the company owner told the police “his dogs love chasing people on bikes”. So sounds like he was encouraging them/found it funny. That sounds like intent to me.