Yet another person killed from a dog attack.. what is going on

[icelolly12]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64254413

Something needs to be done...reports of dog neglect taken more seriously, harsher prison sentences... any other ideas?

Awful, awful way to die, and makes me think twice about passing dogs off lead on walks.

Whatever the initial trigger, there is no doubt that she had too many dogs, and dogs which really shouldn't have been together.

Leonbergers, IME, are very laid back - but they are massive; dachshunds are feisty little buggers (we had three many years ago) and will usually be up for a scrap with anything - just the chances of a large, clumsy dog stand on a much smaller one (and one with a very vulnerable spine) is a bad combination.

I suppose that we'll never really know. The saddest thing is that this was a totally avoidable situation. With half the number of dogs, there probably wouldn't have been a problem.

It's not always possible to just let go of the lead.
I've seen dog walkers with leads attached to waist belts, also people often twist the lead round their wrist for extra security against the dog pulling. But this means it can't easily be released in an emergency.
If the dog pulls it gets tighter and can't be released.

Terrible tragedy.

but I also feel sorry for some/all of the dogs and their owners. Possibly none of the dogs are inherently dangerous and it was just some freak pack frenzy mentality which would never have happened if there hadn’t been so many.

maybe there might have been one or two who were more culpable and maybe some which didn’t get involved. But they’ve all being seized by the police. I guess I’m just picturing my little bichon frise who is the most placid dog in the world and I can’t imagine would join in but would have been terrified herself. And now they’re all at risk of being pts.

No dangerous breeds in the pack

Don't have to be "dangerous" breeds if they are over-excited or frightened. Their reactions are instinctive - as our would be - they just try to defend themselves/ get away, and they panic - just as we would in what we perceive to be a life-threatening situation. And of course, fear is contagious - it spreads very quickly. Sounds like the dogs were terrified and in a heightened state.

I've seen dog walkers with leads attached to waist belts, also people often twist the lead round their wrist for extra security against the dog pulling. But this means it can't easily be released in an emergency. @RoseMadderAsHell

I've never liked those waist belts. I always think that if a dog lunges, the walker could end up with a dislocated spine or something. Backs are more vulnerable than most of us realise. She mustn't have been wearing one, though, as the dogs wouldn't have been able to escape.

but I also feel sorry for some/all of the dogs and their owners.

I do, too @OntarioBagnet - my spaniels would have been out of there like a shot, absolutely terrified of the fracas. I doubt that there will be a destruction order on them though - or at least not on most of them

4 or 5 is still too many in my opinion

Bit of your Spaniel was attached to another dog or to the dog walker themselves they wouldn’t be able to get away and if terrified dogs may bite at anything too close.
If the facts are that the lady was walking 7 or 8 dogs and they all ended up tangled around her/each other then the dogs can’t be blamed at all. As an owner though I can’t honestly say it wouldn’t make me look slightly differently at ddog if he was involved. I imagine it will be hard to unravel which dog did or didn’t bite her or which ones actually killed her
Awful thing to happen to all the humans and dogs involved

Whilst out walking if we see a dog walker with 4 or more dogs we avoid them, same if they are in the dog park, we have one walker who walks 4 at around 10 am and then returns with another 4 lunchtime. She doesn’t see where they poo as she doesn’t even watch them, none seem to interact with her and seem to run to other owners. I think the legal limit should be 2 dogs per dog walker and hopefully this may become law. I feel very sorry for the dogs owners, some may not get their dogs back.

There are no legal limits in our area. One of the counties next to us limits to 4 for dog walkers, but all they do is drive over to our county and walk packs of 6/7 around the limited dog walking area that we have!

I try to do the same but it's not always possible.
I was in a park with my on-lead dog, a woman with 4 large dogs on leads appeared out of the woods in front of us. One barked at my dog, who barked back. This set all 4 dogs off, barking and pulling at the lead, the walker really struggled to control them.
We escaped unscathed by running fast in the opposite direct.

I didn't disagree.

But if you actually read and take the time to try to comprehend my previous posts I have said, quite clearly, that there are OTHER issues around dogs in this country that ALSO need to be addressed. Hence some of my suggestions.

Fatal dog attacks AND general anti social/irresponsible behaviour around dog ownership are both on the rise. I'd even go so far as to say the latter is increasing at a faster rate.

So should we ONLY address the former?

You don't think the causation of one could also have an impact on the other?

But you carry on living in your black and white world.

Oh, absolutely!

Trapped dogs will panic even more. They can't escape and they just desperately try to defend themselves - they snap at random objects and don't even know what they are biting half the time.

4 dogs is the absolute maximum IMO. As I have mentioned a local walker who was a police dog handler never takes more than 4, and that includes his own if he has them with him (he has two), and he's a big, burly, physically fit bloke.

How did this happen
Was it all 8 dogs?! What set it off?! And if it was just one dog and not the others how will they know if she's not here to tell us?

She shouted 'turn round' to other people coming to warn them 😓 just so awful 😓

I really feel that there needs to be regulation of dog walkers.

One of our local parks is basically unusable for most people now as it’s so popular with dog walkers due to it being fenced in and double gates to get out.

Its just full of dog walkers with 6/7 dogs, all trying to control them and the barking is constant.

That might be a good analogy
IF some men were only 2 ft tall and puny with no chance of overpowering you, whilst others were the size of king Kong🦍

I've walked at most three rescue dogs who have at times fought back when another dog comes up to them. The other dog is usually just being friendly, with an idiot owner who does not understand that dogs on leads are on them for a reason. It's frightening! The dogs will just attack blindly and I can easily see how a person can get intro trouble.
7 or 8 dogs.... I can't imagine how terrifying that would be.

I agree
the problem with dogs and dog people is they just take over and ruin it for everyone 😢
If we could have dog free zones I would move there!
I'm sick of the dog nuisance
Let the dogs and the dog people live together in the dog zones and deal with their own shit
literally and metaphorically

I’m amazed that pet owners leave their dogs with people who have reinvented themselves as dog walkers or doggy day care with no relevant experience or training.

I’m not saying that’s the case here - I’m thinking of a near neighbour who uses her home as day care but hasn’t bothered to train in any way (and who’s own three dogs aren’t well trained). Neither has she bothered with the Council process for approvals (which focus on safety of the dogs, eg adequate separate safe spaces etc) as she ‘couldn’t be bothered with all that’.

Her own dogs (by her own account) have tried to attack dogs she is paid to look after - the noise is distressing, doesn’t stop immediately, they seem to repeatedly become aggressive.

But the Council/police will never know until someone’s dog is injured.

Have you reported her? Seriously?

If she doesn't have a licence form the council she should not be taking other people's dogs into her home for money.

This isn't looking after your mam's dog for a week while she goes on holiday - it is a business and as such needs to be legally licensed and overseen properly. However if people are aware and don't report, the council will never know.

Well to be fair, when there's ever a discussion about SUVs, a lot of people justify having them due to having dogs and therefore "needing them".

Why on earth does Tandridge council allow dog walkers to have six dogs? My council permits four. Even that's asking for trouble, if two dog walkers, each with four, meet each other. I can't see how you can control more than two adequately and as an owner wouldn't want to be paying for someone to walk mine in a pack anyway. I know some people want their dogs socialised, but it still seems too many at one time for me.

Especially in the pandemic, people adopted dogs they don't know how to deal with. Dogs need, in this order, exercise, training and love. If at home all day on their own they get bored and can damage furniture, this is especially true of some larger dogs. They may not get taken to the vet to be neutered/spayed or any other treatment. They may have been abused, scared or are unwell. I used to foster dogs and hubby used to move them from warden to rescue or adoption. The pitties were the most pitiful, starved and covered in cigarette burns.

It is all very well demanding microchips but there are over a dozen companies and no national database. If you want you can contact them and change details without the owner knowing. Many owners do not update their details either. Vets should scan chips when a new pet is brought in but they don't. There have been petitions asking for this to be part of the microchip law but the government has refused to ensure any of this. I am always appalled and saddened when there is a death by dog(s) and my heart always goes out to the family. But if the dog owner doesn't care for their dog(s) properly then these tragic episodes will continue.

There were 44 deaths from dog attacks in the 6 years from 2013-2019 (ONS data) and over 7,000 hospitalisations from dog attacks from 2020-21. www.statista.com/statistics/297523/dog-bite-victims-occurances-in-england-by-age/

This is a disgrace, and I personally will start carrying a spray when I go walking and heaven help any dog who comes jumping up at me, with the owner bleating "he's only playing".

Too many dogs in this country. Personally can't stand dogs, so fed up with them everywhere. As for people calling then furbabys need culling.

The problem is the proliferation of dog ownership during lockdown, leading to a opportunistic proliferation of related businesses - dog walkers, groomers, doggy daycare, trainers, etc - which require no qualifications, registration, etc. Anybody can set them up, and so many don't understand dog communication, behaviour, or basic needs of dogs. This kind of catastrophe, sadly, was only a matter of time.

In this case there were 8 dogs being walked off lead. They went for another dog and when the lady tried to gather them up she fell and the dogs redirected to her. An absolute tragedy. The industry desperately needs regulation.

So sad, the problem is, some dog walkers walk to many dogs at once, I've seen it at the part I live near, the law should be no more then 4 dogs at one time, its easy money, obviously we don't know whether these were her dogs or if she was a dog walker yet, its tragic.