Yet another person killed from a dog attack.. what is going on

[icelolly12]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64254413

Something needs to be done...reports of dog neglect taken more seriously, harsher prison sentences... any other ideas?

Awful, awful way to die, and makes me think twice about passing dogs off lead on walks.

Ridiculous suggestion.

Ive worked with dogs for decades. If you muzzle a happy content dog it becomes fearful and potentially aggressive through fear.
Dogs can also pull out of muzzles easily.
Bad owners are unlikely to muzzle their dogs.

Other more sensible suggestions are right.

But licenses won’t be bought by bad owners. Only the good ones.

Making all dog walkers that are getting paid to have a license ( current law) which includes indemnity. It is up to the councils to set the standard but I think there should be a national standard.

They should also have training. Again a national standard course.
…and a register. They are supposed to do this already but who checks?

And maybe dog walkers have to keep their dogs on a lead with no more than 4 per person.

No one knows a dog more than a good dog owner. A dog walker can’t possibly handle dogs it doesn’t know well. And how it interacts with others.
So don’t take risks.
Professional dog walkers should keep dogs on a lead.

you can’t control more than 4 dogs per person.
I don’t think you can even manage that number.
i would say 2 dogs maximum.
But I can see that would be difficult for dog owners who have more. And who would police whos a dog owner and who’s a pro dog walker.

But maybe no one should have more than 2 dogs on a walk unless you’re a registered breeder.

I agree with others that breeding since covid is an absolute scandal.

I am now retired and I’m glad.
Walking my dog I see an almost feral situation at times.

Dog owners on their phones … untrained unsocialised dogs bothering other dogs. Getting aggressive very quickly.

I have to say the police and councils aren’t doing enough to enforce the laws we have.
so making more isn’t the answer.

Where are the park wardens and community police. They used to remind owners to pick up poo. And you could report a dangerous dog.

Now you can’t get through to anyone on the phone. Local police is an answer machine and the council is a joke.

So it’s getting lawless.
so more laws won’t help.

Its not fair to ban dogs in parks.
When most dog owners are diligent and their dogs delightful.

We just want to report the bad owners and be able to penalise them with huge fines and threat of prison. And sadly the threat of canine euthanasia for dangerous pets.

"LordSugarTits I will reiterate what I said once more for the hard of understanding.

those kinds of people are NOT the ones I was referring to when talking about licensing and responsible dog ownership.

I should have thought that would be blatantly obvious......."

Yeah. For the hard of hearing (you) that's my exact point. Who do you think are the owners of the dogs that usually are involved in fatal dog attacks and the reason these XL type dogs are a feature of the school run?

"I have to say the police and councils aren’t doing enough to enforce the laws we have.
so making more isn’t the answer.

Where are the park wardens and community police. They used to remind owners to pick up poo. And you could report a dangerous dog."

🤣 park wardens. You want the police or the council to provide this service when they're already facing unimaginable cut backs. After many years of cut backs. Ok

I don’t know what the answer is in regards to preventing these dog attacks, my sincere heartfelt condolences to this poor girls family 💜

From my own personal experience I have noticed in the past year or so, I have become too frightened to walk in my local park. Which sounds ridiculous as a write it, but there are SO many large dogs running around, the owners are so engrossed in their phones or in conversation with whoever they are walking with. They don’t even know where their dog is half the time? To me, that is very concerning!

On multiple occasions, large dogs have tried to take food from my toddlers hand, again no owner in sight. When the owner does appear, no apology, often just “Awww, he’s just being friendly”………??

I think dog licenses should be mandatory if you own a dog, they should be expensive and that money can go towards funding more dog wardens. Along with that it should be mandatory to complete dog training (similar to learning to drive and taking a test), once you pass then you can apply for your dog licence. If you can’t afford it tough, get a rabbit or a cat instead.

@Kate3150 I’m scared too. Lots of dog owners are very selfish and let their dogs wander around off lead.

I did encounter a man and his dog walking off lead, as he approached he whistled his dog, his dog stopped, lay down and he put him on a leach as he walked past me and my toddler. Once safely past us he then let his dog off lead. I was SO impressed and grateful to him. I wish all dog owners could be like this, sadly he’s the only one I’ve encountered 😂

im totally sick of all the dog shit and dog shit bags everywhere too. It’s not a minority of dog owners doing this either! I’ve had to throw loads of pairs of my toddlers shoes out because they get covered in dog shit on a regular basis

Humankind is the "luxury" the planet can't afford.

The ecosystem was perfectly balanced until people began to field, and farm, and build settlements and increase in numbers without any apparent control taking and wasting much more than we needed of the earth's rich bounty.

If any other species did this we would "cull" (ie slaughter) them in their billions. Though we'll probably do it t ourselves anyway - unfortunately te likelihood is we'll take the rest of the planet and everything on it with us.

@Emotionalsupportviper

actually there’s a huge study about dogs specifically ruining ecosystems at the moment. The dog urine and fouling is killing wildflowers I’ll find the study to link…

@Emotionalsupportviper

amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/07/dog-pee-and-poo-harming-nature-reserves-study

Responsible owners with giant breeds generally are very aware of how big their dog will be. So teaching manners is an absolute must - no jumping up, no barging out the way, etc.
I think some owners of smaller breeds don’t put the same effort in. People think “aww, look at that cute little dog running around like a loon”. No, it’s not cute, it’s a pain in the bum with no manners!

@Furries is right. I can think of a lot of small dogs I know who would end up being euthanised if they were bigger because their behaviour is appalling.

My DD's great dane, on the other hand, sauntered through 2 x 20 min walks a day, and spent the rest of his life asleep or leaning against up against us hopefully in the kitchen.

He had been taught from puppyhood never to jump up because his sheer weight made him problematic. He was incredibly gentle with children and smaller dogs - he was obviously very aware of his size.

Keeping a large group of dogs on leads won't help, especially when walked by someone who isn't the owner and has no idea how the dogs will react to off-lead dogs approaching, squirrels, cats etc.

Dogs can be fear aggressive when on a lead as they can't escape from perceived danger. They may lunge and jump about, the leads get wrapped around the walker and other dogs and chaos ensues.

Quite likely one dog attacked another and she tried to break it up. Poor woman. Awful.

"Ive worked with dogs for decades. If you muzzle a happy content dog it becomes fearful and potentially aggressive through fear.
Dogs can also pull out of muzzles easily.
Bad owners are unlikely to muzzle their dogs."

My dog hates our vet, its the only time I've ever seen a hint of snappiness from her and its pretty distressing. First time it happened I suggested to the vet that we muzzle her and he said "yea if you want to really make her terrified of me 🙄". I gently pushed as I didn't like seeing her snappy and, well, let's just say it was a disaster and she ended up throwing up out of stress

He said let's try my way, gives her her 5 mins of snapping at the air and grumbling, just totally ignores her kicking off while he carries on checking what he can around the teeth 😬 then its like she just goes "well this isn't working" and she calms down. She's much better now, still not a fan but she's never been as bad as that again

I live near to the areas and news on the local dog walkers grapevine/circuit is that it was a dog walker who was walking 8 dogs.

The dogs "went for/attacked/chased" a horse and rider and the dog walker tried to intervene and call them off and they turned to pack behaviour and attacked her.

It is the horse rider who is in hospital with injuries.

I go out with my own dog walker some days, she only ever walks 4 or 5 and we often see dog walkers out with far too many dogs that they can't seem to control or don't actually know very well. Accidents waiting to happen sadly.

This is exactly what happened according to the latest report. Dreadfully sad, as it sounds like she was trying to keep hold of them and protect onlookers but the dogs all panicked because they couldn’t get away, but if she’d let them go she’d have likely survived herself.

Thank you for the link - I haven't read it but I will - but I would point out that it is people who have domesticated dogs, and who allow them to do this, and also that people have destroyed more more ecosystems (in pursuit of profit) than any other species. We have domesticated cattle and now complain that the methane they produce damages the planet. We have domesticated poultry and now have large numbers of domestic and wild birds decimated by avian flu.

It isn't just the domestication of these creatures which has cause problems, it is the conditions we force them to live in. We are, on the whole, a greedy, selfish, unpleasant creature.

We have a greater impact on ecosystems, in both local and planetary terms, than any other species.

Even as I type I do not doubt that somewhere in the UK there is a group fighting against a local wooded area being designated for "executive developments", that rare and endangered species are being carefully "not noticed" by builders who want to start digging, that birds which have nested in particular area for eons (or which have been forced to nest there because people have destroyed their traditional sites) and being scared/ poisoned/ etc because people find them a nuisance.

All creatures have an impact on the planet and other species. Without humankind's interference that impact balances itself out. We, however have upset that delicate balance to the extent that we are threatening our own extinction

@Hydrangeatea do you know what the breeds that attacked were? I’ve heard a leonburger and Dachshund but these don’t seem the type to kill?

@Emotionalsupportviper oh I completely agree with all that of course. We need to take lots of steps to tackle climate change and the destruction of our ecosystems. One of these steps is having a lot less dogs (and other pets).

I don't know any more than that sorry, and of course it may just be hearsay but it sounded pretty credible and from a very credible source. I will try to find out more today and possibly the news may be reporting more on the incident today.

My dog walker friend said there must have been at least one dangerous breed in the pack, as you say those breeds mentioned don't seem likely to kill.

Thank you for this extra information @Hydrangeatea . Something like a horse adds another element altogether. Some dogs will chase horses, some are just interested in them and want to have a look, others are terrified and try to get away. I can well see how this awful accident occurred. Even if she'd had eight smallish dogs she would have been unable to control them.

It's horrible and heartbreakingly sad. One young woman dead, another in hospital. I hope the rider isn't too badly injured. I can't imagine what's going through the minds of all of the dog owners now, either.

Although, I have just read in the Daily Mail that it wasn't this at all!! So who knows!

Daily mail reporting that one of the dog walkers dogs lunged and bit another woman's smaller dog and then the pack turned on the dog walker and there was a Leonburger and 2 Daschunds in the pack.

It seems two riders came across the incident and one bolted as the dogs lunged at her and she then fell off.

So I guess there was something about the riders in the earlier reports.

Whoever said about all the dogs being on leads and not being able to get away was right. She had them all on leads and in their panic and fear to not be able to get away just attacked her. No dangerous breeds in the pack

How absolutely heartbreaking :(

👏

I assume this applies to most animals icl. humans

Agree with you re: fewer dogs.

However particular breeds aren't the problem. It's wanton breeding for money, and bad ownership. And bad ownership doesn't just mean dogs roaming the streets - it can work the other way.

A dog who's family is out all day every day during the week, and who is stuck in the kitchen waiting for a couple of half hour walks from a dog walker; whose people then come home and give it a quick cuddle and then get on with things they want to do instead of spending time with their dog or train their dog, and who on weekends have things to "catch up on". These are also bad owners.

The dog is fed, warm, comfortable - probably even loved - but no-one gives it the mental stimulations and emotional attention it needs. It's like a prisoner in a gilded cage.

I know that not all working owners are like this, but too many are, and children (for whom a dog is often bought) los interest, especially when they become teenagers and have other things they want to do.

Life is a long, boring, slow walk to the grave for these dogs - and this also means that they become excessively excited and uncontrollable when something unusual (like a horse) attracts their attention.

Don't get a dog unless you also have time would be my rule.

As usual the media causes wide spread panic. All 8 dogs would not have attacked her, the dogs would panic and try to protect them selves in a dog fight. No way would I walk big dogs with small dogs, and certainly not that amount.

I would walk 2 dogs at most depending on their size, and temperament.

Yet again idiots are guessing what breed types must have done it. Its people that are a problem, and don't understand dogs.