Asylum seekers - are we going too far?

[RiceOnABike]

I will start by saying that I am very sympathetic to asylum seekers, and until now I've believed that we should do all we can to help them in their plight. However...

A small village in Northamptonshire (population 500) is soon to become home to 400 refugees who have arrived here by crossing the channel. This village seems to be very rural, about 8 miles away from the nearest town I think. Apparently there are no facilities there whatsoever apart from a small shop. The migrants will have access to the local GPs and NHS dentists, and we all know how much pressure they are under at the moment. But the straw that has broken the camel's back for me is where they will be staying. Yes, that is really it in the photos. How can we justify all this when the everyday Brit is struggling to heat their homes at the moment? And more worryingly, what sort of deterrent is it to others considering making that dangerous journey across the channel?

So am I being unreasonable, or are we now offering too much?

Such as? There no legal routes.

The Ukraine scheme is not offered for other countries.

The suggestion that asylum seekers stop in the first safe country does actually happen. See how many turkey take.

But those countries cannot take responsibility for those crossing their borders.

Some asylum seekers have contacts in U.K. abd would like to be with their family.

I think it would help if they were allowed to work. Eg we need engineers and I’ve spoken to qualified engineers but they are not allowed to work.

You are suggesting that asylum seekers are invaders and have justified this based on ONE story of someone doing something illegal.

A story where the “invader” was a 16 yr old trafficking victim no less…

“I think it would help if they were allowed to work. Eg we need engineers and I’ve spoken to qualified engineers but they are not allowed to work.”

This would help definitely but there are legal channels for immigrants to come here to work so surely it would be unfair on those, who spend time and money applying?

There would also need to be criminal checks, qualification checks etc etc which based on how long the asylum checks take probably wouldn’t be much quicker.

I think they need to clarify the exact numbers of economic migrants vs genuine asylum seekers to understand the extent of the issue. They need to get quicker at sifting through those with criminal records and those here who have been declined and deport those swiftly.

Anyway. You can’t fix lack of integration by not integrating. You can’t fix lack of integration by saying “they don’t look like me so they must be completely different.”

You fix lack of integration by

1. not dumping everyone in a small space/already overstretched space

2. providing access to language and cultural awareness (including safe sexual behaviour) courses

3. promoting volunteering, sports groups, mentoring - building connections within the community. There are community groups who do this amazingly well which benefits the asylum seekers and the communities they live in. More people find connections than find they’re completely different.

4. making sure communities are well funded so there isn’t competition for resources which pushes people into “me vs them” mentality, and benefits the whole community ie the British people living there.

5. find and donate to or promote charities and services that do all of the above.

But this is all hard to do when people are forced to live in hotels, moved without noticed, put into already overstretched communities, and when government funding for councils has been slashed so much that there are shortages in social housing, school places, gp surgeries, sure start type places.

My list might sound ridiculously idealistic, but I don’t really care. I’d rather be idealistic and go some way towards solving the problems, than be on the internet advocating for people to get chucked into the sea.

@Lollipop999 If it helps, out of all the people who apply for asylum, around 75% of asylum claims are successful, and that number increase on appeal. So roughly 80% are genuine asylum seekers vs 20% found not to be for some reason. And that varies by individual country too.

Albania is about 50% for men, higher for women, in the 80%s I think.

Rwanda is (or was at least!) 100% claims granted for asylum seekers from Rwanda. Iran is also pretty high I think, but I’m going from memory so correct me if I’m wrong!

Agree.

I also thought of that cartoon, so apt, but I thought it was much more recent.

I agree with this and like this vision. I think it’s the sheer numbers coming which makes it unworkable and the fact that many of the uk population feel that they are struggling at the moment with little support and public services already stretched to the bone.

Trying to read this graph almost gave me a stroke, but here’s the Home Office data @Lollipop999

This shows the grant rate (successful claims) for the top 10 nationalities applying for asylum. Half of them have a grant rate above 80% (Iran 85%, Afghanistan 97%, Eritrea 97%, Syria 98% and Sudan 92%). You can see on the graph that applications from certain countries have a much higher success rate than others. (The grant rates are the tiny x).

Apparently an Australian artist called Denis Lushch drew the cartoon in 2019: facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2656977204337311 It was inspired by this joke from 2015: www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/3n1k30/a_banker_a_worker_and_an_immigrant/ Maybe I'm remembering the original joke because it was pre-Brexit and saw the cartoon later.

@BewareTheLibrarians

I would also add to that….

You can’t treat a lack of integration by telling people they are racist if they show genuine fears or concerns.

You can’t treat a lack of integration by shutting down debate or difficult conversations regarding the above or cancelling people who don’t agree.

You can’t treat a lack of integration by appearing to treat groups of society differently and not being transparent.

(not accusing you of this btw but debates need to be open and understanding needs to be on all sides)

but people conflate asylum seekers with economic migrants. Those arriving illegal by boat afaik are mostly economic and therefore not seeking asylum.

But this doesn’t make any sense, and people conflating those arriving by boat with economic migrants are in part coming from a place of ignorance. No offence intended, no one can know everything.

For a start, there are much safer ways to come to the UK legally and illegally. Most people who come to work in the UK legally are economic migrants. I went to work in Japan ages ago as they paid more for my job than they do in England. I was an economic migrant. If you just want to earn more money or get more benefits it doesn’t make any sense to choose the most dangerous route possible, risking death for a few extra quid.

And if they weren’t seeking asylum and wanted to work, then the stupidest possible thing to do is apply for asylum (or arrive by boat very likely needing help from the authorities to land therefore getting sucked into the system against your will) and get stuck in the asylum system for potentially years, unable to work and potentially living off £8 a week.

Also it’s not illegal to arrive by boat as long as you present yourself to the authorities when you arrive. Our own Home Secretary admitted this - that if people need to claim asylum in the UK they have to make their own way to UK soil.

That’s fair @Lollipop999 and your second point is absolutely spot on.

There are a vocal minority who want “illegals” thrown in the sea, and a worried majority who are stressed about the impact on their overstretched community. Unfortunately sometimes because the language used (“illegals”, “all economic migrants”) can be similar, the intentions of the two groups get conflated and that doesn’t help anyone. People are allowed to have concerns, it doesn’t make them racist. There perhaps just needs to be some care with the terms used. But honestly even the prime minister incorrectly refers to asylum seekers as “illegal immigrants” so I can see how it happens.

If I could also add as a request (likewise not directed to you personally!) that people google even just one damn fact before breezily claiming that all asylum seekers are economic migrants/illegals, or google how the asylum system works before leaping into the debate. It would just help my blood pressure 😁

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Drowned_and_the_Saved

One poor couple on the local news last night had been given 4 weeks notice that their wedding was cancelled ! Awful.

People born in Hong Kong before 1997 are British citizens, my Dad was one. I get really pissed off when HK Chinese are lumped in with refugees. The new visa offered is precisely because HK was a British colony. Also Chinese people have the lowest level of criminality amongst any ethnic group.

But lots of people are from colonies. Some get citizenship and visas, others have people wanting them to drown in the channel.
You can't equate worthiness with what the government decides you can have.

www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/wedding-day-chaos-as-dunstables-old-palace-lodge-closes-at-short-notice-for-government-contract-3997175