Asylum seekers - are we going too far?

[RiceOnABike]

I will start by saying that I am very sympathetic to asylum seekers, and until now I've believed that we should do all we can to help them in their plight. However...

A small village in Northamptonshire (population 500) is soon to become home to 400 refugees who have arrived here by crossing the channel. This village seems to be very rural, about 8 miles away from the nearest town I think. Apparently there are no facilities there whatsoever apart from a small shop. The migrants will have access to the local GPs and NHS dentists, and we all know how much pressure they are under at the moment. But the straw that has broken the camel's back for me is where they will be staying. Yes, that is really it in the photos. How can we justify all this when the everyday Brit is struggling to heat their homes at the moment? And more worryingly, what sort of deterrent is it to others considering making that dangerous journey across the channel?

So am I being unreasonable, or are we now offering too much?

Two hotels here have been taken over and we have mps against it. The problem is tho say we magically worked though all these applications where will they actually live anyway? I’ve got friends overcrowded in council houses who have been waiting 5 years with still no luck. Even 1 bedroom places don’t tend to come up just 2 beds with still huge waiting lists. We have multiple housing developments all the time being built yet these lists never seem to go down. The centre is full of homeless people men and women. My gp can see me in three weeks, the closest nhs dentist is 72 miles away.

They as just dumping these people to basically rot in those hotels or end up in some slum landlord type hmo properties once they have completed the application. It’s no good for them or anyone in the local communities.

Someone I know visited one of these asylum 'hotels' in a professional capacity. Believe me, the conditions are nothing like a 4* hotel (this one had previously been a wedding venue). There was plenty of security - they had to get past 3 separate security guards to get in.

Our local council challenged the Home office on one of the venues they were going to use due to it being in a rural location so entirely unsuitable. The Home Office backed down. I will add that we already have other hotels in the county housing asylum seekers so it wasn't a case of we're not taking them at all. Just that they need to be somewhere with facilities and services.

‘Globally the U.K. take v few asylum seekers. Turkey and Pakistan take the vast majority’

so why are quite a lot of the people in question from Pakistan? ( although many do not have passports, they can be identified by the (often only) language they speak.

the reason that there are so few women amongst the migrants is that many of the countries of origin do not think much of women, they can be erased before birth, erased after birth or just badly fed and badly looked after compared to the precious males, so a much lower survival rate. And those who do survive are much in demand as brides, so not on the boats.

“Yep because when women try that trip they know they have a 90% chance of being raped several times during the journey.”

hmmm but then it’s ok for us to have the same men roaming unaccompanied around our country, with their mediaeval views on women….

what are they doing to protect the safety of uk women in the local areas?

Why would you assume that the risk is from other asylum seekers rather than the human traffickers?

Thought this rang a bell. Saw this on Look East on Monday night.

Might seem like a facetious/simplistic question, but why don't these men behave themselves more? As per the posts above I. E Harassing staff and nicking farm parts to sell on fbook? Shouldn't they be on their best behaviour?

As a PP said, there are 1.2billion people in African, are we going to allow them all in? Because the world is getting hotter, so just wait until the climate migration starts

They are seeking asylum from France.

Not from a war zone, not from a war torn country. At the point where they decide to get in a boat and cross the channel they are in France.

Not only that but they have crossed through other countries such as Germany. They are seeking asylum from the very safe EU countries they are already in. I don't support that any more than I would for any other citizen of one of those countries.

And this isn't about how many asylum seekers the UK takes.

Everyone on those boats is coming illegally.

There are better ways we already use to take legitimate asylum seekers, that don't encourage people trafficking and drowning, with people coming from a completely safe country (France).

We need to crack on with refusing the asylum applications and returning them home...or sending them to Rwanada if thats ever going to happen.

@Lollipop999 I think you’ve misunderstood that a bit - it’s not the same men that are carrying out the rapes, torture and imprisonment. The male asylum seekers often face rape, torture and imprisonment themselves. The ones carrying out those crimes are the organised crime gangs in Libya and other “border” countries, not the ones who come to the UK.

However, you do raise a good point about the safety of women. Putting large groups of men together anywhere is not a great idea, and I include white men in that. People often complain about “groups of young foreign men” being intimidating, and I’ve been intimidated waking past building sites full of white men, crowds of white men outside pubs, bars both shouting inappropriate comments and crowding me/following me etc.

There is fantastic work going on in some communities around integration, sexual behaviour, what’s appropriate, British culture etc but it’s not widespread enough as there’s no funding. Because there’s no profit in it for the government, so why do they care if you feel safe?

And people really need to move on from this image of “brown foreign man = misogynist/sex criminal”. Some cultures treat women better than the average British man does. Some male asylum seekers have been persecuted for running women’s rights charities/work in their country. Others are persecuted for being gay/bi. Some might be shitbags, and if they commit crimes I’m all for them being thrown in prison or deported. But labeling all foreign men as criminals is pretty racist and ignorant. (I appreciate that’s not what you were saying Lollipop just talking about the wider context here.)

Normally migrants and asylum seeks are placed in working class areas so I have no sympathy with the middle class village

Where I live, hotels are full of migrants yet no extra infrastructure has been put in place for these people. No extra doctors, school places etc..
It's a poor working class town and facilities have closed recently. The swimming pool, a library so added hundreds/thousands more people only adds to the strain

I don't have an answer to the problem but maybe if more are housed in middle class areas something might be done about it

@6poundshower I see this “France is a safe country” argument a lot, but what people seem to not realise is that France is a safe country to go to on holiday, for French/British/Eu citizens with your passports or visas. But when you’ve been refused housing by the French govt, are living in a refugee camp which the authorities regularly trash and locals sometimes set fire too, with no job and no income to support your kids, is that safe? Would you be happy with that life for you/your kids? Calais Appeal tweeted this back on December and it appears pretty common:

“The group drew attention to evictions being carried out every 24/48 hours, during which personal possession such as tents, blankets and sleeping bags are confiscated. They said that personal documents, including papers crucial for asylum claims, have also been seized.”

@mackthepony Suggesting that the entire population of Africa is about to rock up on our shores is a touch hyperbolic. Valid point about climate migration (it’s already happening), but if we’re going with hyperbole, at some point some of England is going to sink underwater. I think one prediction is that some of the south east/London will be underwater in as little as 80 years. Are you happy with people (hypothetically) calling your grandchildren scum or criminals for seeking safety? When Scotland closes its borders as it’s been overwhelmed with English people, where should they go?

The photos you've posted seem a bit ridiculous!

Most asylum seekers will be eager to work and start a new life over here. A lot of them are very enterprising and start up businesses. I know of a wonderful Syrian woman who does the most amazing dressmaking, repairs and alterations and is in huge demand despite her not so good English. Maybe also if we stopped bombing places there wouldn't be so much movement of people.

I don't understand how you can blame someone for aspiring to have a better life?

@nationallampoons I think if money was pumped into community facilities so people had functioning easily accessed healthcare, a doctors appointment within 48 hours, no long waits at A&E, easily available affordable and social housing, sure start, youth clubs, sports facilities you would hear so much less complaining about asylum seekers. It’s just sheer competition for resources and you can understand why people feel frustrated and desperate. No excuses for any racism of course. I was shocked to hear that 40 councils haven’t been able to build any social housing for 5 years due to government cuts, and a further 122 councils have built/acquired less than 20 houses each. It’s a massive failure.
I think this is the right link for the social housing details:
www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/13/forty-councils-in-england-built-no-social-housing-for-five-years-due-to-cuts

nationallampoons interesting.

In outer London, we have had this going for years but no one is meant to say anything. We had men, and families to be fair, wandering around the gym and the staff said they couldn't do anything, and everyone felt sorry for them.

I am not far from the local hotel. it is pretty good business for them.

so I'm thinking if the groups are now being housed outside London and other big cities, more attention will be paid.

Sir Trevor Macdonald was on Question Time a few years ago and gave a very graphic description of what some of these people have been through. It is beyond appalling.

But like the small places described here, there's a lot of traumatised men wandering around, they always approach a woman alone for chatting, just because it's London doesn't make it less worrying.

A friend of mine lives in that village in Northamptonshire. She was telling me all about this the other evening. Apparently there was no consultation process whatsoever, it has come from on high, and the villagers are poleaxed and staggered by it. She was saying that the people will have no transport provided or any other facilities other than the village itself. How this tiny village is going to cope with such a huge influx is beyond me. This isn't a case of nimby either. It is totally absurd.

@AnneLovesGilbert 'Unfortunate incidents' is exactly what the villagers are scared of.

What I want to know is, how come so many asylum seekers end up here? Surely if you are desperately seeking asylum, you take refuge in the first safe country you get to, and claim asylum as soon as you cross the border into that safe country. Just how many safe countries have these people passed through on the way here, and why didn't they claim asylum there? Since they didn't do that, but continued on their way, surely that means they are no longer asylum seekers, but have become economic migrants. Whilst I have every sympathy for their plight, we can't keep this up forever.

Beware "They said that personal documents, including papers crucial for asylum claims, have also been seized."

seized by whom please?

I live less than half a mile from this site. The village has a population of 500. 400 asylum seekers is an 80 percent increase in population. If a developer requested planning permission to build homes for 400 people they would be told that the infrastructure could not sustain that number. There is no transport, no school and just one tiny village shop run by volunteers. GPs are stretched and appointments are not easy to get. These people are likely to be fit young men with nothing to do but roam around the quiet lanes. Villagers walk and jog around these lanes everyday and will not feel comfortable doing this as the background of these people is unknown. I have lived here for decades and have.only seen a policeman when there was a village bobby and that was years ago. This is utter madness on the part of the Home Office, who refuse to enter into any communication about their bonkers decision.

So what you're saying is that we shouldn't take any asylum-seekers at all, ever, because we have no neighbouring countries that are unsafe? Presumably you'd include Ukrainians in that? Hong Kongers? We should have never accepted Ugandans maybe? German Jews in the 1930s?

Lilibert "If a developer requested planning permission to build homes for 400 people they would be told that the infrastructure could not sustain that number"

I think we have hit the point where that permission would be granted.

It is currently impossible to apply for asylum from outside the UK, and there is no visa that allows someone to enter the UK in order to claim asylum. The only way to do it is to first enter the country illegally.

Always just single men around 20 years old, funny that. Economic migrants. France isn't unsafe, there's no war there, what are they fleeing in France? Oh yeah the French give them sweet fa and don't provide a lovely hotel to live in for free. We need to stop this, there's no reason to make that crossing, there's no risk to their lives in France. We holiday in france, it's lovely, war torn it is not.

In this particular case it’s by the French authorities, although I’m not sure if “authorities” mean police or border control.

Traffickers are also fond of seizing and refusing to return documents, especially in the camps in Libya to force people to work for them on the promise of getting their documents back. You can probably guess how often they’re returned.

@SpringsRightAroundTheCorner why do you comment on a thread you haven’t read? Have a look at my post at 17:58 (not really that long ago!) which answers this question and ask yourself why you really can’t imagine why France is safe for a holidaymaker but not for an asylum seeker.