At what salary would you consider unpaid overtime acceptable?

[glowingstars]

I’ve recently noticed my colleagues (in office-based, annual salary type roles) are now being much stricter about leaving on time i.e. only working their contracted hours. And if they do end up working late in order to meet a particular deadline, they’re much more likely to ask for time off in lieu at a later point, and managers are agreeing to this.

Obviously this is no bad thing! But it’s a noticeable shift from 2-3 years ago when unpaid overtime was seen as an expected part of the role.

All of these people earn above average salaries, I would guess between 35k and 75k.

It got me thinking, is there a salary point at which you’d consider a) some or b) a lot of unpaid overtime is acceptable? So for example some unpaid overtime should be expected at 50k and a lot at 100k?

Obviously I know this won’t bear much resemblance to how it actually works in the real world (for example I know that teachers do a lot of unpaid overtime and don’t earn high salaries) but I just thought it would be interesting to hear thoughts!

10+ per week unpaid. I won’t say my job as don’t want it to to be outing, but it’s very much the ‘culture’ of my workplace. I have just discovered staff on a higher Band in my team are being paid overtime...and I am planning my resignation letter.
I love my job but I won’t be treated this way. My goodwill has gone.

As I mentioned in my post of a couple of days ago - I chase my team off the computer if I notice that they are working excessive hours repeatedly. Occasionally working late to finish something specific is fine, and I also support them to work flexibly so sometimes they're supposed to be on later hours - but if they can't get the work done in the time they're given there's either a problem with workload or the way they're managing their time.

Agreed. It's usually a sign they're not very good at their job if they're working crazy hours regularly because people who are good at their job on my area communicate when they're struggling and ask for help to either do tasks differently or refocus their priorities.

Oh, and I absolutely agree that overworkers can be shit at their jobs.

One of our senior managers was very proud that he "was always on call". He'd dial in from holidays even when we told him not to, and to put procedures/solutions in for his absence.

Fact was, a lot of his work wasn't necessary - like a lot of IT bods, he was obsessed with HIS solution being the right one. Couldn't relinquish control or accept that others could cope without him. (and once, when running a project together, made me incredibly paranoid that he was going to work out a justification for contacting me on holiday - he didn't, but he did manage to fuck up the simple task I left him)

The whole "I never leave the office" shtick was just cover for a terrible ability to do the job.

I got put in charge, booted him out, and everyone cheered up immensely - I'm very proud of killing that culture (and productivity went through the roof!)

It probably depends on the job you do. I’m a part-time secondary teacher/head of department. It’s my day off today, but I’ve spent hours marking mock exams and I’m still nowhere near done. There is no way I could do my job if I only worked within the directed time budget (1265 hours, pro rata - I’m 0.6). Everything that needs doing would simply not be done and then I’d be in trouble. I’m sure there are plenty of other jobs out there like this too.

people who are good at their job on my area communicate when they're struggling and ask for help to either do tasks differently or refocus their priorities.

People in long hours private sector jobs often say exactly this to their managers. And their managers pay lip service to their concerns but ultimately say “Sorry, suck it up” and manage them out of they refuse to do the hours. It’s the model upon which many of these organisations are run. I’m not saying it’s right, and there are lots of good reasons why it does not make good long term business sense in terms of staff satisfaction and retention, but some organisations do not make those things a priority and still manage to turn excellent profits.

To be fair in my industry it is workload more than poor time management usually - changes in legislation over the last few years have led to more and more areas coming under the scope of the role, and there have been no adjustments to other areas of workload accordingly. I have a huge amount of sympathy for those on the front end and it's causing a massive skills shortage in our sector.

Having said that, it has always been the case that your workload is only ever looked at once client complaints start coming through 🤷🏼‍♀️ it's not healthy.

It’s a race to the bottom to do unpaid overtime, even in professional roles. If more people started demanding to be paid or receive time off in lieu it would be better for everyone.

My experience has been the complete opposite and when I was younger and earning barely above minimum wage, I would do hours and hours of unpaid overtime, by choice, in the hope that someone would notice my hard work. Do you know what it got me? Sweet FA, that's what!

I worked in the City of London. I did overtime, weekends and a couple of all nighters (altho I did get paid for that). My reward was to be made redundant after 12 years. I left exjob because the CFO was making noises about overtime (he was ex big audit firm and wants, as far as I can see, to turn the company more 'corporate.') On top of commuting I'd have been looking at 13/14 hour days. Like another PP, I'll actively avoid any company where OT is routinely expected.