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Original poster

Family ‘heirloom’ wwyd

83 replies

Holliegee · 31/12/2022 12:09

Just wanting perspective.
FIL (ex) to whom I was very close.
He has since passed away but my ex didn’t tell me, he had quite a prolific career and extensive travelled past - part of his ‘history’ included a v expensive (at the time) watch.
His son (my ex) always wanted the watch but his Father would never give it to him - anyway over the years we had 3 sons - Grandad promised the watch to the eldest grandson, managed to get hold of a very similar watch for second grandson which he allowed his son to wear until grandson would be old enough to have it - 3rd grandson arrived -grandad has dementia and no thought about watches for him as his own father wasn’t even bothered with him - yet dementia ridden grandad adores him.

So, me and the children’s father split up.
He quite literally left me in lots of debt etc etc and emptied the house of anything valuable including my jewellery.

However, I discover that somehow he’d managed to take the watch (the original one from his father) and he left it hidden !!!
He has never said anything about it I presume he doesn’t know where it is - however going with Grandads wishes the watch now belongs to my adult eldest son to whom it was promised.

however

eldest son for whatever reason, perhaps having lived with a narcissistic father, perhaps he himself having narcissist tendencies has not behaved very well - lots has since happened and unfortunately he no longer chooses to speak to me or his younger brother (I don’t want to bad mouth him and I hope one day it will reconcile, however he is prone to financial abuse and emotional
abuse very similar to his father)

well here’s the crux …… I’ve got the bloody watch - what do I do with it??

wait until one day he returns (he is abroad) although he doesn’t know I have it.

or

give it to youngest son??

middle son is also estranged and in contact with his Dad who has told him he gets his watch when he dies (when the dad dies the son inherits the watch).

OP posts:
WomanStanleyWoman2 · 31/12/2022 13:24

purpledalmation · 31/12/2022 13:11

Sell it and keep the money. Fuck all that eldest son shit.

Yeah, great idea. OP is hoping to rebuild her relationship with her son at some point. Nothing is more likely to improve things than her flogging an item of sentimental value that belonged to his dead grandfather because, in your oh-so-eloquent words, “Fuck that shit”.

VanillaSpiceCandle · 31/12/2022 13:29

Put it away and if you reconcile with your son, give it to him when you see him. Don’t give it to your favourite child - the others will never forgive you and you’ll have a very lonely life.

Original poster
Holliegee · 31/12/2022 13:29

@Beamur very true!!
Its purely chance that I have it and it’s just very sad the way it’s worked out - the executor for the will would have been his son (my ex) as Grandad had said many times he was leaving ‘a running away’ fund for me and my ex used to laugh and say well a will won’t be found I’m his only benefactor I’m his only child.
Grandad had entrusted me for years with his banking and bills etc as he didn’t trust his son, sadly his son took over everything after we split by reporting the cards lost and then accessing the PIN codes.

I am a little (lot) hurt by the responses on here but cest la vie and all !!! X

Just to add the watch isn’t mine to sell and sadly when my ex left and took things he took things I’d inherited (jewellery wise) from his mum and mine and jewellery his Father (grandad) had given me from his travels.

OP posts:
saraclara · 31/12/2022 13:32

I came back to Mumsnet and realise what vipers some of you really are.

I think you're misreading the tone of some posts. People are being straightforward with you because legally you cannot override a will. You just can't.

I totally understand why you want to, but a will is a legal document, as it should be, and what it says, goes.

Even if you broke the law and gave it to your other son, he would get no pleasure from it, and could never wear it. As soon as his dad or brothers saw it on his wrist, there'd be hell to pay.

Original poster
Holliegee · 31/12/2022 13:37

@saraclara - there was no will, I’m the ‘keeper’ of the watch until I decide what to do with it - the children are all grown up and as Grandad had dementia the last ‘reasonable’ interaction would’ve been over 20 years ago and the watch thing was discussed when the children were very young - eldest ds is 30 this new year.

I don’t think I’ve misunderstood some of the replies - one actually said obviously I was the problem,without knowing the back story.

Thankyou for your reassurance and views though - I do appreciate them.

OP posts:
Beamur · 31/12/2022 13:44

With your updates I would be even more inclined to forget you've seen it and just kick the whole thing into the long grass!

anon12345anon · 31/12/2022 13:55

If it were me, I'd quietly sell the watch, use the money to pay towards any debts your arsehole ex left you with, and say no more about it.

Hope 2023 is a better one for you

mrsm43s · 31/12/2022 14:01

Holliegee · 31/12/2022 13:37

@saraclara - there was no will, I’m the ‘keeper’ of the watch until I decide what to do with it - the children are all grown up and as Grandad had dementia the last ‘reasonable’ interaction would’ve been over 20 years ago and the watch thing was discussed when the children were very young - eldest ds is 30 this new year.

I don’t think I’ve misunderstood some of the replies - one actually said obviously I was the problem,without knowing the back story.

Thankyou for your reassurance and views though - I do appreciate them.

If there was no will, then the watch belongs to the beneficiary of the estate under the rules of intestacy - presumably your exH.

You are not the "keeper" of the watch, there's no such legal thing. You simply have something in your possession that belongs to someone else, and you should return it to it's rightful owner. To knowingly not do so with the intention of depriving the legal owner of it is theft.

Your Ex sounds like a piece of work, he really does, and what you went through sounds awful and you very much have my sympathy. But you don't get to steal things from him as a result.

The only way this doesn't belong to the beneficiary of the estate is if the watch was actually given (not just "promised" which means nothing legally without being written into the will) by your ex FIL to your eldest son before he died and when he had capacity to do so. In which case the watch belongs to your eldest son.

You do not get to decide who gets the watch. It is not your watch, and the only thing you need to do is return it to its legal owner.

Atomiccafe · 31/12/2022 14:02

I think I would sell the watch to try and recoup some of the losses endured during your marriage and the fact that your ex seems to have destroyed the will, in which you were a beneficiary.

Be careful though in case you need to ‘prove’ where it came from or if it might be recognised if it was sold or auctioned.

User359472111111 · 31/12/2022 14:05

saraclara · 31/12/2022 13:32

I came back to Mumsnet and realise what vipers some of you really are.

I think you're misreading the tone of some posts. People are being straightforward with you because legally you cannot override a will. You just can't.

I totally understand why you want to, but a will is a legal document, as it should be, and what it says, goes.

Even if you broke the law and gave it to your other son, he would get no pleasure from it, and could never wear it. As soon as his dad or brothers saw it on his wrist, there'd be hell to pay.

It’s not the straightforward ones that are unpleasant (as you say, you can’t ignore a will) its the ones suggesting that OP, the victim of serious abuse and violence, is the problem in this situation.

pinneddownbytabbies · 31/12/2022 14:06

When your ex left and stole all your jewellery, did you report the theft to the police?

Shelefttheweb · 31/12/2022 14:13

If there is no will then everything goes to the your ex. In which case the watch belongs to your ex. As you ex stole stuff from you, I would sell the watch to recoup what he stole and his debts.

Cosycover · 31/12/2022 14:16

Oh I'd be selling it 100%

Shelefttheweb · 31/12/2022 14:20

In terms of the will, it is simply an asset with a particular value. If the estate is over £325,000 then the watch would need to be valued and tax at 40% of its value would need to be paid by the estate.

purpledalmation · 31/12/2022 14:26

Holliegee · 31/12/2022 13:37

@saraclara - there was no will, I’m the ‘keeper’ of the watch until I decide what to do with it - the children are all grown up and as Grandad had dementia the last ‘reasonable’ interaction would’ve been over 20 years ago and the watch thing was discussed when the children were very young - eldest ds is 30 this new year.

I don’t think I’ve misunderstood some of the replies - one actually said obviously I was the problem,without knowing the back story.

Thankyou for your reassurance and views though - I do appreciate them.

Sell it and treat yourself and your DS (the normal one) to a weekend away, or more if possible. You deserve it

purpledalmation · 31/12/2022 14:29

@WomanStanleyWoman2 So you think eldest son crap is a valid concept? If the eldest son resents his mother selling a valuable watch and doing something to recover from his fathers abuse (maybe therapy, maybe a holiday) is he really a decent human being?

purpledalmation · 31/12/2022 14:31

Shelefttheweb · 31/12/2022 14:13

If there is no will then everything goes to the your ex. In which case the watch belongs to your ex. As you ex stole stuff from you, I would sell the watch to recoup what he stole and his debts.

Ignore this and don't get into a 'he took my jewellery' game. The jewellery is gone, the watch is here, and if the law decrees it belongs to the ex husband OP has lost out twice. No one will know. If they do she can say it's lost to anyone who may cause problems.

lottiegarbanzo · 31/12/2022 14:44

Was there really no will? Sounds like your ex was saying that he would ignore the will and take everything for himself.

saraclara · 31/12/2022 14:46

Holliegee · 31/12/2022 13:37

@saraclara - there was no will, I’m the ‘keeper’ of the watch until I decide what to do with it - the children are all grown up and as Grandad had dementia the last ‘reasonable’ interaction would’ve been over 20 years ago and the watch thing was discussed when the children were very young - eldest ds is 30 this new year.

I don’t think I’ve misunderstood some of the replies - one actually said obviously I was the problem,without knowing the back story.

Thankyou for your reassurance and views though - I do appreciate them.

Ah. You mentioned a will further back in the thread, so I assumed it had been made and signed.

In the absence of one, and knowing that your DH stole from you, though it would be wrong of me, I your position I'd do what I wanted with it. Providing that it didn't cause make trouble for youngest son.
Like I say, morally wrong probably, but still...

Aquasulis · 31/12/2022 14:51

If was gifted to you to give to person A give it to person A.

Of not give it to the person who inherited your grandfathers estate

it is not yours to keep or use

or steal

Sugarfree23 · 31/12/2022 14:54

Op the watch sounds like it will cause more bother than it's worth. Fights over who should have it, your ex or eldest son. Actually I think they'd both sell it anyway.

Nobody knows you have it, sell it and treat it as your 'running away fund'.

Beautiful3 · 31/12/2022 15:09

It's not your watch though. Give it to the eldest, whenever you see him next. Forget about it all, and concentrate on your own life and children who still live with you. Expensive watches like the rolexes have registration numbers and id cards, these are easily traced and identified as stolen. They could report you for theft. Its not worth it, just move on.

Jux · 31/12/2022 15:10

OK there's a legal position, a moral position and a human position.

ExH was a shit and made you pay for the 'priviledge' of having a relationship with him and bearing and caring for his 3 sons.

He stole jewellery that was yours. He made no effort to split things 50/50.

So the legal,and moral position both say you should give the watch to exH.

The human position says, hell do what you like with it and tell no one. This includes your youngest son, or at least not until he's at least 30.

Shelefttheweb · 31/12/2022 15:14

purpledalmation · 31/12/2022 14:31

Ignore this and don't get into a 'he took my jewellery' game. The jewellery is gone, the watch is here, and if the law decrees it belongs to the ex husband OP has lost out twice. No one will know. If they do she can say it's lost to anyone who may cause problems.

Show quote history

I meant it as self-justification, not legally. Legally ex theft of jewellery should have been reported to the police and recompense pursued through court. Maybe request a lien be put on the watch until that debt is settled. But as things stand I would just sell it and not admit to having it.

walkinthewoodstoday · 31/12/2022 15:27

If there is no will, and it has been left in your possession, then sell it and do what you like with the proceeds.

If it is mentioned in a will then you need to follow through.

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