Is this normal? Visits and kids' routines

[ElizabethinherGermanGarden]

I don't have kids; all my siblings do. One has two little ones (3 and 1) and I find their routines really strange. I can't tell whether this is just a young family doing what's right for their kids or quite rigid/difficult. For example, as a Christmas visit to give their kids presents, I've been invited at 9am. It is such a weird time to be invited round and - to me - it feels almost deliberately unwelcoming, as if they would rather we didn't come round or can only be bothered to squeeze us in at a time no one else wants. I was hoping they would come to us and spend a day together or at least come for a meal.

Is this just what people have to do when they have small kids? Is it normal to be restricted to small windows of time at odd hours that aren't normally visiting times? I've been quite hurt by this over the last year or so because it has very definitely felt as if they just don't see me and DP as 'proper' people who deserve to spend time with them at sociable hours

Absolutely normal - I have kids the same age and would suggest a 9:30 or a 2:30 visit and think nothing of it, definitely not that I was being rude. Why do you feel like the morning is an odd time to be invited?

(As per PPs I’m also not wildly inflexible and routine crazy, but my kids need naps and lunch etc and of course that shapes the day.)

No not normal, my kids would barely be be up and dressed at that age. No idea why people let their kids have anti social schedules

If they both nap 12-2/3ish (fairly normal), then maybe the adults relish that time for rest/napping/chores etc. So having you around at 9am means you'll be long gone by naptime.

I wasn't strict with routines but I can see this situation arising without malice or anything else.

Ds used to wake at 7am (still does often now he's 15yo) and by 10am he'd be no good to man nor beast if he wasn't asleep. He'd just sleep where he was, despite noise etc until around 12noon. That's the advantage of being dc#3, I guess.
My girls, at a similar time used to normally have "quiet time" in their rooms from about 2-4pm. I wouldn't have made them do it at all, but they liked it and often would go and put themselves in their rooms at that time. They'd probably have left the visitor to themselves, which if they were visiting to see them would not have been helpful.
Then between 12 and 2pm we'd be having lunch, and visitors between 4 and 7 (when ds went to bed) tended to wind dd2 up to the point she wouldn't sleep much before midnight, so I would have avoided that time.
So I can imagine saying to someone thinking 9am would be great, because all the children could open presents and then the visitor could play with dd1 & 2 while ds slept. Yes, it would have been fitting round our routine, but I'd have been thinking about when the visitor would get the most from the dc.

I also remember a friend phoning me at 7am. Her dd was in the habit of rousing for the day between 3 and 4am. She was astonished to find I wasn't very awake when I first answered the phone because to her it was the middle of the morning. She was very apologetic when I pointed out it was 7am.

This was me when DC were little. They were only happy in a strict routine and it sucked but if I tried to be flexible the day would be miserable for everyone. And they would wake around 530am so 9am felt like a perfectly reasonable time to meet people. I used to envy those with flexible young children and felt so trapped but having tried everything. Maybe ask them what the kids typical day looks like and have a discussion about it to see what other time would work. For example I would hate meeting people after 4pm as DC would be so excited they couldn't eat their tea and would wake around 11pm hungry. They do grow out of it. Don't take it personally, 2 young kids is a hard stage but won't always be like this.

This is why I need Mumsnet! It's so helpful to sense-check things - I couldn't have kids and don't know the ins and outs of life with toddlers. I get that all kids and all parents do things differently, but there's such a marked difference between this bit of the family and everyone else I know with little ones that it's baffled me a bit, and I was letting it upset me. It's helpful to know that it isn't that unusual.
Thanks everyone.

Pretty much.

You might wanna see them in the evening, but by 5pm, young kids are getting cranky, want their tea and are probably wanting a bath etc.

Then when they finally go to bed about 7-8pm (if they do actually go to bed then) the parents are probably knackered and want their own bed too.

Mornings are better for parents. Everyone will have more energy and be less cranky.

On reflection, it sort of depends whether you're going to visit them or their children.

My siblings come to visit me not DC. So if DC were napping, it wouldn't bother them.

If you're going specifically to see the children, it makes sense to fit in with their schedule if you don't want them to be ratty and cross.

@ElizabethinherGermanGarden What are the others in the family with kids like?
What are the kids ages?

I was hoping to visit my brother and his wife, see the kids and chat with the grownups. I wouldn't be bothered if kids went for a nap while I was there, but if it means that the kids wouldn't sleep or it would make them grumpy for the rest of the day, I can understand why the parents wouldn't love the idea.

For example, out of my group of friends with kids who are friends with my Dd, who’s 4, one of them recently had her Dds birthday party. It was set for 2-5pm and most of us were a bit 😬as we know the way they sometimes get around that time (some still nap also) my Dd doesn’t
The general time is around 11 am, which I find is pretty good for my Dd, then a bit of lunch and home for quiet time

Might they also be working?

Friends' kids and oldest brother's kids are now older (8-16 range) and younger brother's and sister's kids are younger. There's no one at the moment with exactly the same ages/age gap. I do remember how things were with older nieces and nephews and with godchildren (ie not like this) but as I say I do understand that families are different. And the messages here have been really useful in outlining how not-unusual this set up is amongst families at large.

No

It can take a while to get kids to nap, so with mine you might have found yourself sitting alone on the sofa for a large chunk of the visit while I tried to settle them.

That said, if both parents are there, surely one could chat with you while the other settles the DC.

My sister used to take turns with me dancing up and down our hall with DC1 to get them to sleep so she was always a welcome presence at naptime. Sadly she now lives too far away to visit regularly.

I’m that mum too. We’re up from 5, DC’s have sn/asd if our routines off you’re not going to be here at 3 in the morning while I’m peeling them off the ceiling because they slept an hour later than usual. Nor do people help with the challenging behaviour side. I don’t like it much either but sanity over social norms for now.

Obviously they might not have the same issues but an over tired 1 year old and an excited 3 year old is about as fun as a barefoot Lego race track.

Sounds backwards but planned visits more often might help relax things then you aren’t as “exciting” to the small humans as you don’t always come with a gift/something happening.

I my house it wouldn't be normal. We would arrange a mutually convenient time for both parties, depending on work schedules (all on AL atm until NY so not too much of an issue), other commitments in the day etc. No, I wouldn't expect anyone to come at 9 am.

I have slightly older kids now, but I would have hated this. My house and kids were not in a “fit for visitors” state all of the time and you can tell me you wouldn’t care, it’s family etc, but I care. I’m not massively fussy, but if I’m in jogging bottoms and a two day old t-shirt, my kids aren’t dressed, the toilet might not have been flushed by the preschooler, breakfast plates are still on the table mid afternoon, the toys are all over the floor competing for space with the crumbs, the nappy bin needs emptying and I haven’t done the dishes etc etc (the reality of what my life sometimes looked like when my kids were 1 and 3), plus it’s about to be nap time/lunchtime/bedtime I don’t want you “popping round” because you happen to be in the area. I don’t want anyone “popping round”, ever. Give me some notice and I’ll welcome you with open arms, but on this one I’m with your brother and his wife (and even if your brother is ok with it/it’s your family norm my hunch is it’s not hers).

Wow. I had no idea! It seems so strange to me. But noted.

It’s interesting, to me the notion of showing up on someone’s doorstep without any prior notice or discussion and expecting to be invited in is totally alien - and that was true even before I had kids, but especially afterwards. There’s not a person in my life I’d do that to, or expect to do it to me except in an emergency. I’m not saying I’d make every arrangement formally and a month ahead, but I’d always at very least text or call first and ask if it was convenient - and be fully prepared to hear that it’s not a good time. I’m not saying what you’re doing is wrong if that’s what everyone involved is used to, but it’s not how me/my friends and family work.

It might not just be about the kids, but it sounds like it might also be your brother and more likely your SIL just have a different set of social expectations.

Yes. Different, clearly. If my brother or his wife, both of whom I like very much, knocked on my door, I'd be pleased to see them and invite them in for a cup of tea, or if I was busy, tell them and arrange to see them another time. It just doesn't seem problematic to me. But I like visitors and maybe (increasingly clearly) they just don't. And that includes family. And it sounds as if they are not alone. I've taken that on board.

To be fair, I'm only talking about 4/5 occasions over a period of a few years. I am not constantly popping up and saying 'cooee!' As you say, different social expectations.

It is strange 😂.

Worse for us, this was amongst the least strange bits of those early years!

Not normal, would have never suggested 9 am for anyone to visit. Sounds regimental and ridiculous.

Have you tried hosting them at your home?

Definitely not a brush off, I'd be horrified if anyone I invited round felt like that. They've provided stoke that will be the most enjoyable to you, to be in their company, that's all. They're really thinking of how you, as a non parental, will feel about being with their children. They want the m to be at their best for you.