Britain is a poor country pretending to be rich

[socialmedia23]

archive.vn/RhqFe#selection-1335.45-1638.0

'The problem is that it is not even remotely true. In fact, the opposite is the case: Britain is turning into a relatively poor country, and fast. In terms of GDP per capita, the UK is soon expected to fall behind Mississippi, traditionally the worst off state in the US. According to some projections, in less than 15 years we are even set to be overtaken by Poland, the country that used to supply us with an endless army of cheap workers.'

I don't agree with the reasons that the writer of the article gave for the current situation. But I think that it is very stark that even the Telegraph is admitting that we are a poor country. Guardian and FT have admitted that a long time ago.

In reply to an earlier comment, only UK universities in top 10 worldwide are Oxford and Cambridge. I was shocked by how bad British finances actually are after starting work as a government employee. I had assumed we were okay but now realise I need my children to learn languages so they can look globally for jobs and security. Also getting fed up of pretending to the public that problems are covid related and not finances

I live on the outskirts of Nottingham in the East Midlands and it does not seem poor. It's surbanan with plenty of amentities. We have buses running every 10 mins from just around the corner to the city centre. Walk to next street and we have trams running every 10 mins into the city centre. Buses run every 20 mins into Derby. There's e scooters galore which the students love because we also have 2 big universities and so many international students who bring money into the area as well as UK students.

We also have 2 big hospitals and health centres, walk in centres, parks, green spaces and it doesnt feel like a poor place to live.

Pubs, restaurants and shops are packed and money being spent. So this geezer says it's all an illusion then?

I'm 50 something and I'm booking a cruise this year with one eye on early retirement - something he is sneering at. Live and let live.

You bet. The US is still relatively affluent, but I would say it is harder to become prosperous without inherited privilege. Student loans have a lot to answer for.

We are not a poor country compared to many other countries in the world . What we do have is a big gap between rich and poor. The standard of living for the wealthier classes is very high compared to many other nations. In comparison the poor here really suffer. We also have a bit of an aspirational "keeping up with the Jones" mentality as a nation which means many of us poorer people are living beyond our means and we struggle to keep up.

Exactly that. If you strip out the tax havens, city states and small natural resource rich countries, we're top 10 capita per GBP. So it's stupid to say the UK is a poor country.

On the other hand, we're behind our nearest European neighbours and have a bigger wealth gap, so it doesn't feel great.

I thought Alabama was the poorest State of the Union.

Genuine question; why is the USA so rich?

Leaving the U.K. and arriving in Dubai is a real contrast.
Even the difference between the two airports is enormous.
It feels like you flew out of a portacabin in the U.K. and landed in palace in Dubai.
It is a very particular kind of culture shock to go somewhere so much richer.

For a number of reasons:

For a start productivity of employees in the US is much higher than the UK. This could be for a number of reasons such as more capital to invest which makes employees more productive or that the average American works harder than the average Brit. In countries like Luxembourg or Switzerland or Norway you have a relatively small population but some very important wealth creating industries like oil and gas or banking.

Secondly it's a bigger country so offers a bigger market for goods and a bigger market for employees who are free to work in different states if a better job comes up.

Thirdly taxation is lower but this comes at a cost of no free healthcare.

Fourth - bigger country with more natural resources.

Fifth - historically the US did rather well financially out of the two world wars whereas it pretty much bankrupted the UK.

@MintJulia. Good point.

Unfortunately uni education and grammar schools are removed from lower classes now. Unfortunately a huge amount of children leave school without basic literacy skills and then they feed into crime and prison.

We would see a revolution in the UK if we simply expanded our sen knowledge info school and had more types of school not less including grammar with school not parent help to pass.

There is no doubt Brexit, covid, war in Ukraine and CoL had had a huge huge (and disproportionate compared to other counties) impact on quality of life and wealth of the average citizen but we are not a third world country. We have a support system (benefits), an NHS, public schooling system. All in dire straits but they exist and make up a huge part of manifestos for political parties.
I feel sad when I see the state of some parts of the UK. We live in a city that’s so mixed- lots of wealth but also poverty, huge amounts of construction work in the city centre but also some very poor areas. You’d never know there’s a CoL crisis if you looked in the bars/restaurants on a Friday night but if you went to a food bank or spoke to a nurse doing extra shifts you would. It’s a huge juxtaposition and I choose to hope for a better future as I refuse to accept a long term poor standard of living for my kids.
I also find it hard as whenever I research other options for our family to move to (we have very transferable jobs) actually when you drill into it now where is perfect and we view every other country with rose tinted glasses in a lot of ways

Dubai is built on blood and slavery. I’d live anywhere else before moving there.

We retired in our 50s on private pensions and Savings/investments. Can't believe they want to blame the shocking state of UK finances on us when they are the most inept managers of government finances and have done nothing to encourage economic growth.

Zombie thread

You must take some of the blame. If you’re economically inactive you’re making far less financial contribution than if you were working. Our economic model is predicated on working until you reach state pension age.

@Blossomtoes Nonsense. It is just a smoke screen to deflect from their financial mismanagement and inability to persuade the great British public that Brexit would cost us economically.

We contributed plenty during our combined over 80 years of working with just a 2 year gap for me while our children were babies. I feel no guilt that we have been able to retire early due to sensible financial planning and not borrowing up to the eyeballs.

It’s not nonsense at all. Only someone with a less than rudimentary understanding of economics could possibly think that 30 odd years of retirement each benefits the economy. And they call boomers selfish!

The city I am currently working in (not my home town) but a tourist attraction South of England town has many people living in tents. Right in the centre. Tents in churchyards and parks. Tin roofs would be an improvement.

@Cornishclio you were lucky that
you didn’t have to borrow up to your eyeballs. Many people today have no choice if they want to put a roof over their heads. My in-laws paid £18k for their house. It’s now worth £600k. We bought our current house seven years ago. In that time we’ve paid £120k off the mortgage; that’s more than six times what my in-laws paid for their house and we’ve still got a long way to go before our mortgage is paid off!

@Blossomtoes You could argue that the economically inactive also includes SAHMs and the long term sick (some of which are also early retirees) My husband worked long hours in the NHS sometimes 50 hours a week then three years after retirement needed open heart surgery. Do you think he should have continued to work long hours at the age of 58 with a serious health condition?

How old are you and do you work?

@Lozzybear We moved away from an expensive area in order to afford a reasonable size house without a large mortgage. It was a decision we never regretted even though we had to move away from family. House prices are out of control. Another failure of our inept government.

I’m 70 and I worked for 47 years. Anything else you’d like to know?

The UK's the world's second biggest money launderer, after the USA, with an estimated £88bn getting washed every year (2022). That money does nothing for the people of the UK, brings organised crime & slavery. Economic crime-fraud is about 40% of all crime, yet hardly any resources are given to tackling it.
But it's 'activity', which makes our economy look livelier than it is.

Plus everything you've highlighted, @socialmedia23. We seem to be modelling our aspirations on places like Belize and Panama. God knows why!

*@Blossomtoes
*
I’m 70 and I worked for 47 years. Anything else you’d like to know?

Well either you are lucky enough to enjoy your work and aren't used and abused by your employer or you haven't saved enough during your working life to retire.

I am pretty sure you aren't continuing to work past retirement age for some altruistic reason to help the UK economy because of us lazy early retirees. We do voluntary work, help with childcare for grandchildren and continue to spend. Maybe you should direct your ire towards the bunch of economically incompetent people managing our economy.

Either way I am out of this thread now.

@Cornishclio I moved away from
my family too…so I could actually get a job. Not everyone has the option of moving to a cheaper area. I had to move to a more expensive area so that I could secure work.

So your husband had an NHS pension, no wonder he could retire early. A public sector defined benefit scheme is very different to a private sector defined contribution scheme.