Britain is a poor country pretending to be rich

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archive.vn/RhqFe#selection-1335.45-1638.0

'The problem is that it is not even remotely true. In fact, the opposite is the case: Britain is turning into a relatively poor country, and fast. In terms of GDP per capita, the UK is soon expected to fall behind Mississippi, traditionally the worst off state in the US. According to some projections, in less than 15 years we are even set to be overtaken by Poland, the country that used to supply us with an endless army of cheap workers.'

I don't agree with the reasons that the writer of the article gave for the current situation. But I think that it is very stark that even the Telegraph is admitting that we are a poor country. Guardian and FT have admitted that a long time ago.

I think lots of people in the UK are doing very well. Especially when you get to the stage in life when you've paid off your mortgage and you have a good salary or a good pension.

But at the same time, you have a lot of people who can't afford housing. Or the rent. And if they do, then they have little disposable income. Or even have negative disposable income.

It can be tough in this country for many people. But a lot of people have it good.

From the Asda income tracker

Bottom 40% of households now have negative discretionary income

corporate.asda.com/newsroom/2022/12/19/asda-crowned-the-lowest-priced-supermarket-this-christmas#:~:text=Latest%20Asda%20Income%20tracker%20shows%2040%25%20of%20UK,and%20drink%20products%20by%20trade%20magazine%20The%20Grocer.

Source

corporate.asda.com/documentsandreports

@Obviouspretzel

Which post?

l wasn’t referring to myself in any of this.

l left teaching, but we spent time at school working with the Trussek trust for food boxes. It was a big secondary. 7 support staff left in the last 1/2 term. They can’t fill the vacancies because the salary is so shit. There’s no money for equipment, materials, support staff etc. It’s not a world class education. Class sizes are massive. Teacher and student mental health is on the floor.

This is not the education of a so called wealthy country. And this school was in a ‘naice area’ But plenty of kids with profound problems with no support.

l taught a practical subject using dangerous machinery. I had a class of 27 y7. 22 were SEND. It included a VI student with severe vision problems. If l sat with him all lesson which is what was needed to keep him safe, l had to leave the others. There were 3 with ASD including one profoundly affected. Various dyslexics, several ADHD and several behaviour problems. And one member of staff responsible for their H and S.

The recommendation is a max of 20 in that subject. This was not the education of a wealthy country.

I am not sure how gdp links to public services other than you can tax money made to pay for them. Are there places with lower gdp but better services. It doesnt seem much point being a rich nation where all the money is just spent by individuals on cars manufactured elsewhere, and on holidays elsewhere.

We are becoming a poor country because the government refuse in invest in its people.

• No cheap childcare? Well that's then a large percentage of women who have to leave the workforce or reduce thier hours so we are wasting a vast amount of people's skills and loosing tax

• Expensive further education? Well that either puts people off learning, saddles them with high debts which stops them having families or a place of their own to live and stops people being able to afford to retrain which means we aren't gaining the skills that the country needs

• No youth clubs? Well that makes the teenagers feel bored, unwanted and increases crime rates.

• Poor primary healthcare means that things that could have been treated quickly and easily then become more permanent problems that may end up untreatable. This can make people unable to work, so we loose out in taxes and have to pay more benefits

• Unsuitable microhomes being built stops people being able to socialise because they have no space for visitors to see them and can't afford out of home entertainment or having to move away from friends/family due to the housing costs can harm mental health.

• Destroying green spaces especially in towns and cities to cram in more poorly designed housing also helps destroy mental and physical health.

• Closing council run libraries, swimming pools and other leisure activities also helps worsen mental and physical health.

Agree. The GDP per capita only measures a country’s relative wealth. I doesn’t account for income or wealth inequality or government revenues and spending. These have an impact on how wealthy the actual average person is within that country. It also doesn’t account for cost of living differences between countries. The U.K. is very expensive cost of living wise and so many countries who are not as rich by GDP actually offer a better standard of living to the average person than the U.K. does.

All those people telling us to shut up and stop moaning because other countries are poorer, how do you think Britain and European countries became richer for the average family?

It didn’t just happen, and despite some other middle class crap floating around at the moment it wasn’t because the very few rich folk who went abroad took it all from other countries to give it to our poorest either.

It isn’t as bad over here for the poorest because they didn’t shut up and didn’t accept it. It took years of protests, centuries, to begin to claw some semblance of civil rights and welfare states, and occasionally riots and revolutions, and yes, a couple of massacres.

Now that civil rights and equality in democracy have been reversed on the west, we have to do it again. We won’t be helped by people from countries that have made their own specific choices in favour of gross inequality telling us to shut up. We won’t be stopped by the rich, whether our own or those of the other countries, who can afford to travel back and forth freely when there are people here who can no longer afford to travel to the next town.

Empires and violence may be an all too common experience of humanity, especially in Asia, but so is civil life in Europe. Change the poorer countries instead of whinging at those of us here.

It isn’t as bad over here for the poorest because they didn’t shut up and didn’t accept it. It took years of protests, centuries, to begin to claw some semblance of civil rights and welfare states, and occasionally riots and revolutions, and yes, a couple of massacres.

100% agree. Many people do not realise that even the freed slaves in the USA got the right to vote almost a half century before working class men got the right to vote in the UK. (1876 vs 1918).

One of the reasons why the British Empire had no issues oppressing others around the globe is because they had been doing it for millennia at home. An unequal society is what they thought was perfectly normal and right- even in the 19th century the church was still preaching to the British working class about God given place in society and how the ‘ruling class’ were their betters because God said so and their God given role was to provide the hard labour for hand to mouth wages (survival still required the whole family to work for wages, not just the father).

I read somewhere some statistics to show that the rich in this country have become much richer this last decade, and the poor, much poorer. Sounds about right.

You live in an affluent area but you also have homeless people and empty shops.
That says it all. If even the wealthy areas are afflicted by these problems then something is not working.
@Obviouspretzel try moving up here and see the perilous state of most services.
The north was hit by austerity far harder, it's well documented. We had something like 5 out of 12 libraries shut back in 2012. Massive cuts to vital services. Young people certainly don't have the same opportunities up here to flourish. My DS1 with decent GCSEs, A'levels and a stonking CV couldn't even get a decent apprenticeship.

This is my observation also. Brits also seem to notice this about themselves, yet instead of protesting about energy companies profits, failing trains, they seem to have a blitz spirit about it. "Let's share tips to stay warm." "Who can not open the radiator the longest?" This can be a virtue for dealing with disasters but is short sighted... The strategy should be organised demand. Capitalism just takes and takes if you let it unchecked. Why does "public demand of proper life quality " not happen in this country? What's the cultural background? Its so fate-ist in some sense.

@Odessafile our bus service in my northern city has just literally been cut in half. There’s no money to run it despite it costing £6.00 return to travel a distance of about a mile of a half.

Yes, look at the distribution of the higher GCSE and A level grades - the south does significantly better than the north. 32.6% of London GCSE entries achieved grade 7-9 in 2022, but only 22.5% in Yorkshire and the North East. The inequality is measurable and widening.

But the UK is ahead of Spain, Israel and Japan. No one would say that those aren’t all rich, first world countries. Also, the list you quote is full of tax havens which to me don’t really count. Have you read about why Ireland’s GDP per capita is so high? It’s not accurate in the way you think and is distorted by so many companies being domiciled there.

www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/economic-letters/vol-2021-no-1-is-ireland-really-the-most-prosperous-country-in-europe.pdf

I do agree with this part. When the British ran my country, we had lots of slums and 40% unemployment rate in the 1960s. Now it is one of the richest countries in the world (and average incomes are on par with london), 89% home ownership rate. I used to think when i was a teen that they must have treated their own countrymen better but when I came here in 2011, i realized that they don't treat the poor here very well!

What I did mean is that the government was linked to the British East Indian company so they should have invested the money properly so that there would be money to run our NHS and schools today. Same for North Sea Oil tbh. Without the Empire and later industry (without thatcher), Britain is now dependent on providing financial services to the world's richest and retail (selling consumer goods to the declining middle class). Those are not solid foundations.

Generally in the UK
We are poor.
We are paid low wages.
We are not trained properly in work.
Many types of work are not valued.
Food banks in hospitals!
Teachers topping up by coaching.
Having to claim UC when working full time.

It's shameful and shocking that we're so poor and what's worse is that many of the poor vote for this. Mind boggling.

As someone who grew up in a “third world” country, the title of your post is quite ridiculous and irritating! You guys have a national health system through which you can receive world class medical care for free and your rate of serious crimes is minuscule compared to most really poor countries!

I’ve driven that route from New Delhi to the Taj Mahal @frozendaisy and I will never forget it. I feel exactly the same as you and am thankful every day for the protections that come with living in the UK. I feel very fortunate.

You could’ve written this about the US and they are one of the richest countries on earth!

I live in one of the richest bits of the country. Our bus service is also struggling. They cant get drivers so each day they announce which bits of service will run for which bit of the day. It also costs £6 to travel not very far, although i have seen one provider offering a £2 per journey in the town centre but only if they have a driver that day/time.

We HAD an NHS.

We don’t have much of one at the moment though.

The USA has a great on paper GDP per capita and yet they have some more serious problems than we do with the minimum wage, gap between rich and poor and crime which is linked to that gap.
www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/01/gdp-frog-matchbox-david-pilling-growth-delusion/

@Spendonsend

Do they cut transport in London?🤔

The above link is from the World Economic Forum and explains why GDP per capita is not a great measure of success for a country.

No idea. Dont live in London.