Britain is a poor country pretending to be rich

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'The problem is that it is not even remotely true. In fact, the opposite is the case: Britain is turning into a relatively poor country, and fast. In terms of GDP per capita, the UK is soon expected to fall behind Mississippi, traditionally the worst off state in the US. According to some projections, in less than 15 years we are even set to be overtaken by Poland, the country that used to supply us with an endless army of cheap workers.'

I don't agree with the reasons that the writer of the article gave for the current situation. But I think that it is very stark that even the Telegraph is admitting that we are a poor country. Guardian and FT have admitted that a long time ago.

And also 50 year olds are economically inactive due to illness and nhs waiting lists. If the government could be bothered to sort this out, they might find some over 50’s could actually return to work.

Wouldn't be the Telegraph without some poorly evidenced bitching about flexible working. To listen to them, you wouldn't think the UK still had a significant productivity problem even pre covid when our presenteeism was probably worse. Fair play though he's had something to say about early retirees, which is a bit of a biting the hand that feeds situation given the demographic.

Depends on where you went. Most people think of Hong Kong and Macao as developing regions. My parents live in Hong Kong and I used to go regularly pre-covid. The visible level of wealth is definitely much higher than the UK. The poster who posted the list of GDP per capita make sense. Both are higher up than the UK.

The UK has an inflated sense of its own wealth. It doesn't mean it's a bad country to live in however. We don't need a lot of wealth to be happy.

People think Hong Kong is developing? I thought the stereotype was that it's super rich!

You should tax assets.

I have looked up my household income on ONS and apparently my household income is in the top 5% of the UK. I am not sure how someone who owns a london flat and can barely pay childcare for 1 child should be the top 5%. Yes london housing and childcare is expensive, but the average rent in the UK is still £1000 and my friend in yorkshire says FT childcare for her would be £1000.

So honestly I don't think the vast majority of PAYE earners have much to give, i think most rich people either have businesses or companies that they can claim tax exemptions for or they derive the vast majority of income from their assets. PAYE earners are as good as working class in this day and age, save for a very tiny elite of investment bankers and Magic Circle law firm lawyers.

I don't think comparing the UK to not-as-developed nations is how to determine if we're a rich country or not. It's not comparing like for like.

We're not doing well compared to how we're supposed to be doing and I think a major part of it is wealth distribution and mismanagement, not that we don't have it (sadly something that happens in basically every country).

Fair play though he's had something to say about early retirees, which is a bit of a biting the hand that feeds situation given the demographic

Hiw can that be biting the hand that feeds you? I used my private pension to retire. Maybe if work places were more age friendly and had proper menopause procedures in place over 50’s wouldn’t be fleeing at such a rate. How can a 59 year old work with the same level of energy as a 25 year old? It’s just not possible. But they are expected to. Industry needs to improve it’s age awareness if it wants over 50’s to stay in the work place.

The uK is not a poor country at all. I have family in the developing world and it’s a different life there. We may not be as rich as we think we are but that’s not the same as being poor

On the other hand Sweden which never closed a single school during COVID and it's mitigations were very limited but not non existent seems to be doing quite well compared to UK so it really can't be that I'm lockdown was very very slightly mder than France.

Because the newspaper he's writing for caters to an older and more affluent demographic, ie they're more likely than the general population to have taken early retirement and thus not be particularly receptive to any criticism of the idea.

Well I'm in my 50's and will not be retiring anytime soon.

Hopefully some other country will start giving us aid if we’ve fallen into the realms of a developing country. We could do with some money coming in.

But one of the main reasons for the over 50’s retiring WAS Covid. Even if it didn’t happen in Sweden.

The UK has an inflated sense of its own wealth. It doesn't mean it's a bad country to live in however. We don't need a lot of wealth to be happy

We might not need a lot of wealth, but a functioning health care system, a reliable transport system and everyone having enough money for food and energy would be a start.

I can't think of a single poor country which can maintain a highly subsidized public transport service, free at the point of service healthcare and adequate money to run a comprehensive welfare system for the poor/disabled.

These are hallmarks of a rich countries. In poor countries, people just have to get along as best as they can. Greece is not a classic poor country but there were lots of old people who were eating out of the garbarge just after the 08 recession. Lots of Greek pensioners had their pensions cut and were destitute.

It cost real misery. And in a sense, its worse for a rich country to suddenly become much poorer than for a poor country to become poorer. Poor countries have a very different culture that would have developed due to the lack of money- more reliance on family for example and a much more loosely regulated economy which would have meant more opportunities. You can sell food on the street without a license for example- that at least ensures a source of income even if all else fails In the UK, such options don't exist (even if you want to drive for Uber, you need a car, insurance and a clean driving license for a start!) Poor people in a country like the UK would fare dreadfully without a welfare system- fewer opportunities to make money from casual work and often no family support.

can't think of a single poor country which can maintain a highly subsidized public transport service, free at the point of service healthcare and adequate money to run a comprehensive welfare system for the poor/disabled

Britain doesn’t have a highly subsidised transport service. The north no longer even has a proper train service. Health care may be free but it’s non existent.

Well Tunbridge Wells hasn’t had running water for a week now and the water company is saying there is “no end in sight” so tbh it doesn’t feel like a very first world place atm.

Perhaps these are all signs UK isn't a rich country. And its not like the USA either - where there is no public transport system or subsidized healthcare system but vast swathes of the middle class live in gated communities in large houses and can afford to pay 18k per annum in property taxes. The US system is cruel to the poor but there is opportunity. There is a large consumer base of people with large houses who purchase endless amounts of goods to fill their large houses.

The UK isn't like that- it doesn't have the German/Swiss model where 50% of people rent apartments but otherwise accumulate decent savings, can afford lots of holidays, have access to good healthcare; nor does it have the USA model.

I thought Tunbridge Wells is quite a wealthy place and they vote Tory; i don't understand how these people can just take it lying down..

People near me had no gas for that entire freezing spell. It was the fault of the water company

The water company offered them £30 compensation. For 14 days of no gas. In minus temperatures.

We have an average house, electric, clean water, bathing facilities, books, food with a fridge to keep things from going off. I can go to a shop and buy many fruit and vegetables, we can buy meat that has to be safe to be sold. We have private transport (a small family car). Our children be they male or female go to a "free to us school". We can walk for exercise at the very least. We all have shoes.

Go to India OP. Go and see the Taj Mahal, get driven along the route from Delhi. Have a look around? Yes perhaps food can be sold without a licence but do you have to break your child's legs so they can get more money begging?

You don't know what human poverty is.

And we are distinctly average materially, with a huge travel budget and are in the UK's top 5% (at least), travel expands your mind. Try it.

I have lived in 3 countries and travelled to over 10 countries. Including a week in rural China. What struck me was how ambitious the people were, they were so keen to improve, to build better lives. They knew they were poor and weren't content.

All those comforts: electricity, clean water, consumer options, free schooling shouldn't be taken for granted. They are only a given because we currently have the money to keep it going. What happens if the government can no longer fund pensions? And your pension fund goes bust. You can no longer maintain your house and the electrics will degrade. There are already people who can't afford to run their fridge. The free schooling may become non-functional, much like the NHS. Clean water is also not a given, look at Tunbridge Wells.

Btw there are a lot of middle class people in India, not just the very poorest. I can find you some poor people in the UK who are eating cat food and prostituting themselves for £10 per hour because their Universal Credit payment was delayed. There are lots of examples of extreme poverty in the UK, you don't need to go to India to gawk at them.

And we are distinctly average materially, with a huge travel budget and are in the UK's top 5%

What does "distinctly average materially" mean? If you are in the top 5% by income you are well off.

I’d love to see where you live.

Our city centre has mainly beggars. Very few shops. It was once a big industrial city, but no longer has any industry.

Schools are falling apart. I’m so glad my dd is in y12, and doesn’t have to cope with the state of schols for much longer.

BTW, I’ve travelled all over the world

The city centre I work in also has large numbers of beggars and homeless people. It's got increasingly worse in recent years - there are areas (under the railway bridges) where there are pretty much permanent tents now.